One Mighty and Strong


Mighty and Strong?

This picture conveys what the One Mighty and Strong will probably NOT look like.

After readings some comments about the One Mighty and Strong I thought I would post my understanding on the subject.

We learn about the One Might and Strong in Doctrine and Covenants 85

Two verses which specifically discuss this person:

7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

Verse seven gives these attributes for the One Mighty and Strong:

– Mighty and Strong
– Holds the scepter of power(Priesthood?)
– Clothed with light for a covering(Not sure what this could symbolize)
– Shall utter eternal words
– Bowels shall be a fountain of truth
– Set in order the house of God
– Arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints

So if we are to identify the One Mighty and Strong he must have those qualities. And he must set the house of God in order(which implies that it is currently out of order). He must also arrange the inheritances of the saints. Inheritances are lots of land that are given as part of the stewardship of each saint.

Another interesting thing is in verse 8 which seems to say that the One Mighty and Strong will be called and appointed by God but will come from outside the organizational hierarchy of the Church. He is compared to the person that puts forth their hand to steady the Ark. While it is needed that this person steady the Church they will be punished for doing so. He will be struck down by the “shaft of death.” So we are looking for someone who sets the house of God in order but then later is killed.

Additionally John Taylor gave a prophecy, recounted by Lorin C.Woolley:
“[John Taylor] said that in the time of the seventh President of this Church, the Church would go into bondage both temporally and spiritually and in that day (the day of bondage) the One Mighty and Strong spoken of in the 85th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants would come.”

The Seventh President of the Church was Heber J. Grant. So this helps establish a timeline for the One Mighty and Strong. He will come after Heber J. Grant.

Brigham Young said, ‘The time will come when this people will be led onto the very brink of hell by their leaders, then the one mighty and strong will come to set the house of God in order.’

This tells us that the One Mighty and strong will come at a time when the church faces utter spiritual destruction. Why do I say spiritual destruction? Because temporal destruction does not take one to hell. A person can be killed or impoverished, yet attain the celestial kingdom. So let us not fool ourselves into thinking that popularity, wealth, and millions of members is a sign that we are on the right path.

Spiritual destruction comes from doing things contrary to the Word of God. If we were in or nearing a state of spiritual destruction you would see some of the following signs:

– Changing of sacred ordinances to be more acceptable to man.
– Obeying the word of man rather than the word of God.
– Institution of policies which are based on scriptures but are actually different.
– Gifts of the Spirit are not publicly manifest.
– Instead of money being used for sacred purposes it is invested in the Babylonian market.
– Condemning Saints for practicing the commandments of God.
– Desiring to be more acceptable to the world.

That is just a short list, there are many more signs. What this shows is things that we should look for, to know when we are nearing the time of the One Mighty and Strong.

And it is my personal opinion that since the church has not yet been set in order, nor have the saints been given their inheritances, that the one mighty and strong has not come yet. I think he will come as part of building Zion.

I am also of the opinion that the One Mighty and Strong will not claim or acknowledge that they are the One Mighty and Strong.

As you can see my knowledge on this subject is pretty limited. So please feel free to enlighten me further.

I look forward to the day when the one mighty and strong will come and pave the way for the establishment of Zion. In preparation we must all seek to establish Zion in ourselves. If not, we will not have a place in Zion.

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128 Responses to One Mighty and Strong

  1. rockwaterman1 says:

    Boy, do I wish I wrote that!

    Well done, my friend. An excellent post.

  2. The One Might & Strong is none other than Joseph Smith, Jr.

    “And the lord of the vineyard said unto ONE of his servants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants … And go ye straightway unto the land of my vineyard, and redeem my vineyard; …”
    (D&C 101:55-56)

    “Verily, verily I say unto you, that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., is the man to whom I likened the servant to whom the Lord of the vineyard spake in the parable which I have given unto you.”
    (D&C 103:21)

    You’ll notice in the description of the One Mighty & Strong given in D&C 85 that he is “clothed with light for a covering.” Who else, but resurrected beings are covered in light? This suggests that he wasn’t the One Might & Strong while he was in the flesh, but became the One Mighty & Strong after his death. It makes sense that he being the Head of this Dispensation would be the one to set things in order.

    If you do a search at scriptures.lds.org for “one mighty strong,” it brings up Isaiah 28. D&C 85, D&C 101/103/105, and 3rd Nephi 16 all tie in with this one chapter. The apostasy and restoration of the church Joseph founded were all foretold as far back as Isaiah. That chapter is particularly eye opening, especially the last section of it.

  3. zo-ma-rah says:

    I would think that the one mighty and strong is Joseph Smith except that the one mighty and strong, “shall fall by the shaft of death.” He will die because even though he was called an appointed, he will put forth his hand to steady the ark of God. A resurrected being, which Joseph Smith would be, cannot die.

    Also Joseph, who gave the propohecy, never identified himself as such. Not that that really matters. I think that the ressurrected Joseph will play a roll in the future. But I am more inclined to think the One Might and Strong will be a Lamanite prophet.

    But my interpretations are not perfect, so I could be completely off.

  4. The historical meaning of steadying the ark means to take the reins from God, for fear that God will allow something to happen that shouldn’t happen. It is the direct result of lack of faith. No, whoever it is that is steadies the ark is not the One Mighty & Strong. It is the One Mighty & Strong’s job to set in order the house of God. The man who steadied the ark and changed the New and Everlasting Covenant (temple covenants) was stricken down.

  5. I’m suspicious that the man who was stricken down was Harold B. Lee:

    “Many mourned the unexpected death of President Harold B. Lee. In November 19, 1973 President Harold B. Lee had signed documents for dissolving the Corporation of the President. (These documents are included with our Original Book of Mormon CD which contains many key documents.) President Lee was repenting for being a money changer and wanted to get the Apostles out of the money business. All President Lee needed to do was present this dissolution at April, 1974 General Conference, in compliance to D&C 26. It is for the Presiding Bishopric to be in charge of the temporal affairs for the church, according to the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church. Five weeks after his noble act, President Lee mysteriously dies. In 1973, the United States Government (Federal Bureau of Investigation) initiated an investigation into the suspicious death of President Lee. Many incriminating documents were destroyed in an unexpected fire, but also unexplained deaths of potential witnesses occurred. President Lee’s death was not “normal” since he had no history of heart or vascular problems and entered the hospital for lower back pain. Some Mormon and Biblical Scholars wondered if President Lee was the fulfillment of prophesies in Deuteronomy 18:20-22 and D&C 85:8 about a fallen Prophet. Officials of the United States wanted to know if President Harold B. Lee had been murdered. An anonymous person who fears his life, gained in depth information about the untimely death of President Lee years later while consulting with a former nurse of the same hospital President Lee had stayed in. The nurse was interrogated for hours by the F.B.I.. This person was told by the nurse that the F.B.I. believed that this was a murder, but because of the high profile entities implicated, the case was closed and the investigation not pursued.”
    (http://www.mormonstruth.org/antichrist.html)

  6. Sounds like a potential case of Gadianton robbers

  7. I retract this part of my statement above:

    “and changed the New and Everlasting Covenant (temple covenants)”

  8. rockwaterman1 says:

    John Peterson,
    Thanks for the link to that site, Mormonstruth.org. What a treasure chest of information!

  9. I stumbled into the full reference source to that quote I gave above:

    http://www.bridgingtruth.com/Letter.html

    Very interesting reading indeed!

  10. You’re welcome Rock! I’ve enjoyed a few of the articles you’ve written on your puremormonism blog. Especially the one about Corporatism and the other one about general conference being so boring. I’m still trying to get through all the comments, so maybe I can add something of use to the conversation.

  11. rockwaterman1 says:

    I’d be happy to have you weigh in, John. Thanks for the amended link.

  12. Zack says:

    You have come up with some very good observations given the info we have to work with.

    But I would like to throw in my two cents on one of your observations and make a few of my own.

    First you mention that this OM&S must die as a result of reaching out to “Steady The Ark”. I find this not to be what is being spoken of in Sec. 85.

    My understanding is that God is sending the OM&S to CONFRONT an organization of Leaders who have DISORGANIZED the Lord’s Church and the one reaching out to steady the ARK, is a Leader ALREADY in place & being confronted by the OM&S whom the Lord has sent to SET things in order.

    This whole senerio I just described, would establish the set of CIRCUMSTANCES that would cause the Saints to have to make a CHOICE as to WHO they will follow.

    So if God is SENDING a Representitive to present HIS ( The Lord’s ) alternative, this infers that the Staus Quo are out of line with God’s Will & must be confronted by GOD’S Rep.

    This most CERTAINLY WOULD create a DIVISION among the Righteous & the Wicked within the Lord’s Church.

    It also conforms to the idea of the Vast Majority of the members sticking with what they BELIEVE in regard to a Prophet NEVER leading us astray. Joseph & Brigham WARNED us regarding ANY Leader who would place themselves before us as the ULTIMATE truth. Only GOD can occupy that position in our lives.

    And it is OUR RESPONSIBILITY as INDIVIDUALS to have God CONFIRM the words that come from the mouths of His Prophets.

    In a 1996 Ensign Article, Elder Maxwell is quoted as saying ” When the Brethren have done the thinking, the THINKING has been done”.

    In other words…No need for us to CONFIRM these things with God on OUR PART…Just TAKE them at THEIR Word.

    This is EXACTLY what Joseph WARNED us of. MEN have placed themselves before us as though they ARE GOD. And ONE of those particular men is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 3 & 4, as being the BAD GUY who sets HIMSELF up as God and seats Himself in God’s Temple.

    In the JST version of this same chapter, the Lord mentions that it is HE HIMSELF who is ALLOWING this sharade to perpetrate itself for a time, for the purpose of SETTING UP the Wicked among the Lord’s People to BUY OFF on the FALSE DOCTRINE & LIE that this FALSE PROPHET is God.

    Now you say this has not happened that any Prophet has stood to proclaim this.

    Well, this is why the Lord is allowing this to extend itself for a while. The INFERENCE to our Leaders setting themselves up as God has ALREADY been made by our Leaders proclaming the very thing I quoted by Elder Maxwell in that 1996 Ensign Article and the fact that we have NOW ADOPTED the FALSE NOTION that a Prophet is NOT capable of leading us astray.

    If you think THAT is true, you haven’t read the scriptures very closely.

    And the Lord is telling us in Thessalonians, that it’s being done for the PURPOSE of ALLOWING the Lord’s People to BELIVE in a Lie. This LIE is what the Lord’s People of our day have been CLAMOURING for in our wanting to be FLATTERED into thinking if a BAD GUY does come along, surely it will be a Pope or ANYONE besides one of “OUR GUYS”.

    But you need to look VERY CLOSELY as to WHOM the Lord is refering to in these scriptures and study them in THAT context…The Lord is FIRST & FOREMOST ALWAYS addressing HIS PEOPLE in the scriptures and NOT other Religions.

    And as far as the comment someone made about this OM&S being Resurected, the answer to that would be no. TRANSLATED…YES. And like you first stated….He is someone to come from WITHOUT the status quo.

    And the fact that He is being SENT infers 2 things. 1. He is EXAULTED to a Higher Level ( Translated ) as His “COVERING” is metaphoric language for His BODY and the “LIGHT” for that Body infers being RAISED to a Higher Spritual Level than Human.

    But according to Joseph Smith, Resurected beings are not to interject themselves into the affairs of a Telestial World beyond delivering Messages or Keys. Extended services to mankind are provided by TRANSLATED Terestrial beings aka Angels, like Elijah, John, The 3 Nephites ect…

    You hit on many good things to be looking for in this Man. But JUST as important as recognizing this Man and probably even MORE SO, is to UNDERSTAND the CIRCUMSTANCES behind this STING OPERATION by the Lord to WEED OUT the Wicked from among His People by ALLOWING this scam being generated by our leaders to MANIFEST itself in some future situation where one of our Current Leaders presents himself to us as GOD.

    If you think this is far fetched because there have been NO SIGNS of this coming, then I refer you to the chapter in Revelations describing this same event, and refering to this scam as “The Mystery of Iniquity”, in other words…A SECRET COMBINATION that is the VERY ONE that Nephi warned us to AVOID and told us not to let them get “ABOVE US”. And WHO is ABOVE US, that we have placed GOD LIKE TRUST IN ???

    And this WHOLE sharade is being described as going on UNDER OUR NOSES without us NOTICING it….”It NOW Worketh”. But will someday be EXPOSED…”The Lord LETETH until that Wicked One be REVEALED”.

    WAKE UP people. It’s been in the works for many years now, and when our World is about to take a dive in this coming World Crisis, probably within the next 2 years, THEN is probably the time this FALSE PROPHET who proclaims to be God will seat Himself in the Temple and PRESENT us a CHOICE….HIM or the OM&S that GOD sends to offer us the TRUTH & ALTERNATIVE CHOICE…And EXPOSE this False Prophet for who he REALLY is…That “Wicked One”.

    THUS….You have the “SEPERATION of the Righteous from the Wicked “.

    It’s ALL THERE if you just SEE it as the scriptures DESCRIBE it. And our Leaders make a pretty Big Deal about our NOT geting TOO DEEP in trying to understand the Mysteries that God has COMMANDED us to learn.

    And the “MYSTERY” I’m sure they are MOST CONCERNED about us learning is that “MYSTERY OF INIQUITY” ( Secret Combination ) they prefer to keep secret until the Right Moment when we are face with having to make a CHOICE as the World will PRESENT US and this False Prophet will be the vehicle in OUR CHURCH to attempt to sway as MANY AS POSSIBLE to accept the “LIE” that He is God and probably telling us “ALL IS WELL IN ZION” and there is NOTHING to fear.

    Nephi warned us of the Man who would PROCLAIM those sentiments. Lets see WHO uses them…Hint…they have ALREADY been used by a man we all know and MAY see again…

  13. Zack says:

    Here is a possible paradigm of the choice the WORLD will offer us, yet it will come in the form of the OM&S who DELIVERS us A choice, to avoid the WORLD’S CHOICE for us…..ANILLATION !

    The senerio is this…The world is about to enter a Third World Nuclear War and WE are it’s Primary Target.

    Now we are NOT being given hints about this impending Judgement by our Civil OR Spiritual Leaders and it becomes incumbent upon GOD to interject Himself in the affairs of this World BEFORE this crisis occurs, in order to WARN the World. Thus, IN steps the Man GOD SENDS to WARN us of this impending disaster that NO ONE ELSE wishes to report.

    Now by this time, some assute and IN TUNE Americans and a few Church Members, are growing more & more concerned with the IMPLICATIONS of all the New World changes we are seeing now, and wonder HOW this is to take place, ASSUMING that what is coming, is going to be IMPLEMENTED in such a way, as to the Wicked of the World making an attempt at DEVOIDING the impairment to their progress to create this One World Wicked Order. ie….The Christain Community in General…The USA.

    So in reponse to this growing concern over our future, many vocal members began voicing these concerns to our Church Leaders.

    At SOME POINT a RESPONSE must be given or the people may loose Faith in our Spiritual Leaders. But for SOME REASON unknown to us, they have NOT been sounding the Voice of Warning as it SHOULD be sounded if a Tidal Wave of disater were approaching.

    The SIGNS & SCRIPTURES say it IS almost HERE. So what’s up ?

    Are they being silent for some reason that GOD KNOWS and is ALLOWING them this opportunity to do this, until the time draws SO CLOSE, that an answer MUST be given by them ?

    Then when APPROACHED by this concern some of us have, they will say ALL IS WELL, there is nothing to fear…. GOD IS WITH US ! He is Right Here MAKING this ASSURANCE to you from the “TEMPLE OF GOD”….Just as He PROMISED us in the scriptures He would do.

    And WHY would we just ASSUME this Prophet telling us these things, is REALLY GOD ? Because GOD promised us He would RETURN and HE’S BACK and “APPEARING IN HIS TEMPLE” as it says in Isaiah. And being someone we are “FAMILAR” with and we TRUST he would not LIE to us…Then what would we do ?

    THIS God will look like someone VERY FAMILAR to us….A Prophet who has been IDOLIZED by the Saints in recent times. An “IDOL PROPHET” of our time, that EZEKIEL has WARNED us of. And when he RETURNS to us ALIVE and proclaiming to be God and bringing with him many “Signs & Miracles” of “Decieveableness”…What are we to BELIEVE ?

    And at some point AFTER all this happens, when the SEPERATION has taken place, the Lord WILL appear in His Temple to the RIGHTEOUS who chose to follow the REAL SERVANT sent by God from His PRESENSE.

    Satan is to COUNTERFIT this TRUE occasion and USE it to DECIEVE the Saints and cause a CHOICE to have to be made. But of COURSE it is the LORD ALLOWING this happen and has CONTROL of this situation for His OWN PURPOSES.

    Haven’t we been told that a Prophet will NEVER Lead us Astray ? And what if he has MANY WITTNESSES to his Divinity ? ( Apostles & General Authorities ). Will you BELIVE this “DELUSION” ?

    MOST WILL…As Jesus EXPECTS they will, according to 2 Thessalonians.

    And this guy will say there IS NO Nuclear War coming to us, or if it DOES, we will be PROTECTED from it.

    According to a REAL PROPHET, it will either COME or it WON’T. But this prophet will most likely offer BOTH senerios.

    Well, that statement the False Prophet would make concerning the SAFETY of the Saints…. if it DID come, would be PARTIALLY true. Except only the RIGHTEOUS would be protected from it if they OPT to go with the OM&S that GOD SENDS.

    The REST who believe in this False God & Prophet, will PERISH in their UNBELIEF and find themselves in HARMS WAY when the Nukes Fly because they didn’t HEED the warning of the TRUE Servant of God.

    If you peice together all the parts to the End Time Puzzle as found in the scriptures, it becomes OBVIOUS what Satan’s Plan is and what God’s PLAN is to COUNTER it. And EACH wind up claiming their OWN PEOPLE….God is to ALLOW the Foolish & Wicked to be DECIEVED into believing “A LIE” ( A False Prophet who proclaims Himself as God and telling us there is nothing to WORRY about and NOT to listen to the one sent by God ). And that will spell their FATE in this coming War.

    While the Faithful FEW will be SPARED these things by following a REAL SERVANT of God, instead of someone POSING as God HIMSELF.

    It’s ALL THERE in Black & White and has been there for a LONG TIME, as a WARNING for God’s people to make THEMSELVES AWARE these things are coming.

    But of course if it is NOT SOMETHING to come from the mouths of our current Leaders, then it is NOTHING to Worry about….Right ?

    It you BELIEVE TAHT…Then you are among the MAJORITY who have NOT FEASTED ENOUGH on the scriptures to know these things for yourself. And have BOUGHT OFF on the council of our Leaders to NOT GET TOO DEEPLY into the scriptures that TEACH & WARN US of these things and as the Lord COMMANDS US TO STUDY OUT.

    Who are they to COUNTERMIND directions we have recieved from the Lord through His REAL Prophets of the past?

    Maybe THIS is why they came out and said that what a CURRENT Prophet proclaims as Truth…TRUMPS what Joseph Smith or lame Prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah and others of the “PAST” have had to say about OUR DAY & WARN US that these jokers would DO THIS to us.

    The Lord will take care of His OWN, as will Satan. And UNFORTUNATELY, the Vast Majority of the Lord’s Covenant People have become BABYLONIALIZED into becoming SO SELF RIGHTEOUS, as to believe there is NOTHING for us to WORRY about….”ALL IS WELL IN ZION”…. Well, it WILL BE in the REAL ZION to come. The one that God’s REAL SERVANT, Provides the Righteous.

  14. Dave P. says:

    Zack,

    You make some excellent points. However, it’s VERY hard to take you SERIOUSLY when you add THIS kind of EMPHASIS every four or FIVE words. I use all caps to emphasize something every so often myself, but this bit of overkill makes it hard to read what you want to say.

  15. Zack says:

    Ps…This False Prophet will make it APPEAR he has come from Heaven as a Resurrected God, as described in Revelations. He will offer SIGNS, MIRACLES & WONDERS, like bringing fire down from Heaven to MOCK & CONTERFIT a TRUE Miracle that Elijah wrought, in order to CONVINCE us of his DIVINITY.

    Most of the Apostles & General Authorities will stand as Wittnesses on his behalf, in order to conform to the Law of Witnesses.

    This will have proven to be a FULL BLOWN CONSPIRACY on the part of our leaders who have been CONTEMPLATING this so called Special Day that the scriptures tell of, & WILL DECIEVE most of the membership because THEY are wicked also, and have been CONDITIONED for this scam for many years now on Satan’s part, & ALLOWED to be carried out by them with Jesus’ permission, ( As per 2 Thessalonians ), untill the time He EXPOSES them, by letting them first MAKE these Wild Claims and THEN sending His OM&S to EXPOSE this garbage and offer the Saints an ALTERNATIVE to the “LIE” and WARN the Saints of coming NUCLEAR WAR that will destroy all those who refuse to REPENT.

    So…That’s my take on my understanding of the scriptures, that I must admitt, I VIOLATED the council of the Brethren and went with the Lord’s ADVICE instead….To FEAST UPON THE SCRIPTURES & LEARN THE MYSTERIES OF GOD. And found OUT what they are UP TO.

    I Hope MORE of you are doing this and following GOD”S ADVICE over the advice of men, who are MORE concerned with the BUSSINESS AFFAIRS of the Church, than getting out there and being UNPOPULAR in the eyes of the World as TRUE APOSTLES & PROPHETS SHOULD BE during times of the Greatest Evil this World has ever known.

    INSTEAD, we have corrupt Presidents & World Leaders HONORING our current Prophets & Leaders.

    THAT doesn’t shake down very well with what we know of True Prophets of the past, who were ALWAYS HATED by the World because they were always calling those Leaders to REPENT of their EVILS.

    OH YEA…THAT’S why our Current Leaders are NOT being persectuted….because they are FAILING to mention to these IDIOTS that they are about to be DESTROYED BY GOD FOR THEIR WICKENESS !!!

    So I guesss that makes our leaders by INFERENCE, COMPLICATE, in NOT allowing these wicked men to REPENT of evils they are UNAWARE they are committing.

    Our Leaders are COWARDS in the face of truth. They are COMPLICIATE in the WAYS of the World, as far as the “CORPORATION of the church is concerned. And IS their PRIMARY INTEREST and something they ARE WELL COMPENSATED FOR and is the REASON they don’t REPORT Specific Earnings of the many companies the church owns and the SALRIES engendered by our Leaders who satnd as their CEO’S, BOARD MEMBERS AND MANGERS.

    Yet at the SAME TIME, arrogantly proclaim to us members & the REST of the World that they are NOT COMPENSATED for their “ECLASTICAL” duties.

    That is TRUE…They are NOT PAID for being PROPHETS….They are being paid to MAKE A PROFIT off the LORD’S TITHES that stands UP these companies own by the church, with the Prophet as “TRUSTEE IN TRUST”.

    Read the last chapter of Malachi where it is refering to God sending His Messenger before the Great & Terrible day of the Lord. And the part that referes to the BEEF God has with His people of OUR DAY…”.They have ROBBED ME OF MY TITHES”.

    John the Baptist was only a PARTIAL FULFILLMENT of this Prophecy. For THIS Messenger is to come in concert with the DAY OF THE LORD, which is SOON to come upon us and has it’s Final Fulfillment in the coming of the OM&S sent by God to PREPARE THE WAY for the Lord’s RETURN.

    And His FIRST order of Business, will be to CLEAN THE LORD’S HOUSE of it’s ROBBERS of the Lord’s Tithes, & of the GREAT DECIEVER…The Anti Christ, who POSES as God, within the Lord’s Own Church.

    Afterall….As Isaiah tells us…The Lord reveals THE END by comparing it to the BEGINING. And in the BEGINING before we came into this life, it was SATAN who attempted to HI-JACK God’s Domain. And is ATTEMPTING to do this VERY SAME THING in the END…

    And JSUT AS many of the Lord’s Children chose to follow Satan THEN, so too will MANY follow Satan in the End and the Lord’s Chuch will find itself GREATLY REDUCED in numbers, leaving only TRUE SAINTS of God, while the rest are “CAST OUT” , JUST as it happened in the BEGINING.

    So PREPARE YOURSELVES for this. There IS nothing to fear, as long as you know the TRUTH and WHAT to LOOK FOR, as God has WARNED US through His Ancient Prophets and at least ONE modern Prophet…Joseph Smith…

    The NEW GUYS….Most of them anyway, are IMPOSTERS in the Lord’s True Church, if you discount the CORPOARTIONAL ABOMINATION aspect of His Church.

    The Corporation & those who SUPPORT & BENEFIT DIRECTLY from it, was NOT God’s Idea…And the scriptures TEACH us that.

    If you haven’t progressed this far in your understanding of the scriptures, then I suggest you start reading VERY FAST because TIME is RUNNING OUT !

    Begin with gaining a Good Understanding of the Book of Isaiah that contains the OVERALL UNDERSTANDING of these things and the PLAN God has in store.

    THIS is WHY Jesus and OTHER PROPETS, such as Nephi & the countless other Prophets who QUOTE Isaiah, have TOLD us that we need to KNOW & UNDERSTAND it’s TRUE MESSAGE to US.

    Begin with reading the Books of Avraham Gileadi, such as Isaiah Decoded, The Litterary Message of Isaiah, Isaiah in The Book of Mormon, and The End from the Begining.

    These are ALL WORKS of a Man Truly Inspired of God to ASSIST US in areas of UNDERSTANDING God’s Message to us, that our Leaders try to DISTRACT & WARN US against gettting too Familar with these Words of God through Isaiah.

    They tell us to concentrate on the EASIER things of the Gospel. In other Words….Just continue sipping at the BREAST of the Gospel and NEVER MATURE to understanding the MEAT OF IT.

    GEE !!! I wonder WHY they would DO THAT ??? Maybe it is because once you UNDERSTAND Isaiah, you find that God is IMPLICATING & ACCUSING our Leaders of Today of GREAT EVIL and is WARNING US they are CREATING this coming DELUSION & LIE that is described in 2 Thessalonians and many other scriptures.

    And if we DON’T Learn these truths for OURSELVES, then we are likely to be FOOLED by these False Brethren when that DAY OF DECEPTION ARRIVES and we have to make a CHOICE as to WHO we will follow…..

  16. Zack says:

    Dave P….Sorry for doing that with so many caps, but what I have learned FRIGHTENS me for the many of us who have no clue, these things have been going on under our noses and very few are catching on.

    The scriptures even say, that only a Few Will gain an understanding of these things. But it STILL upsets me that so many of my Brothers & Sisters are going to be FOOLED. And the “caps” are mearly a reflection of my concern.

    I hope you can get past my juvinile way of expressing myself & sense my anxiety & concern for my fellow Saints.

    I’m not a very educated or sophisticated person and I sometimes show that in the way I emphasize everything. But it is sincere emphasis that I hope you & many others pick up on before it’s too late.

    I love you guys and HATE those who are doing this to us. And the Lord hates them as well…And will soon RID Himself of them…

    OOPS ! There I go again…Sorry….

  17. Dave P. says:

    Sadly a lot of people will continue to remain fooled. All we can do is pray for and try to warn them, but history has shown that many people simply will not listen or fail to realize until it’s too late. I’ve had members of my own family call me delusional or “on a hopeless crusade” for trying to warn them about these things and many of them think the Babylonian way is going to solve the problems that the modern-day Gadiantons have instituted in the first place.

    I can bring up conspiracy theories that have not only been proven true, but also admitted out of the mouths of those behind them and present that proof, but no dice. We live in a world of complacency, ease and luxury and that is one thing Brigham Young feared the most that the saints would have to go through.

  18. Zack says:

    Dave P…Another reason I get so emphasizacle ( is that a word I just invented ? Maybe I’m smarter than I thought I was. ) about everything, is because I can see from the many comments that members are making, that they are either Tiptoeing on the brink of discovering these things, or they already Know and are just trying to communicate this message in a more descrete way, in order to not draw unwanted attention from our Leaders who would & have excommunicated members for expressing this understanding of the scriptures.

    My over emphasis of everything, is my way of showing that my concern for Leader’s malcontent with me, is less important to me than my fellow Saints going through life unaware of these things.

    It is incumbent upon those who KNOW the Truth to Bravely PROCLAIM it. Or we are NOT doing the Lord’s Work to WARN our neighbor and instead express ourselves in some politically correct manner that is “ACCEPTABLE” discourse for civilized and educated men.

  19. Zack says:

    Dave P….I can see now that you are one who knows.

    I too have had to go through a barage of critisisim for trying to warn my family & friends. Not just critisisim but having to suffer that “Delusional” asspect of this thing you speak of.

    It’s been a real heart breaker for me to be thought of this way by my own family.

    I’ve been going through this for almost 40 years now. But I have made a dent in helping my wife and one of my sons understand these things, who now see what I’ve tried to explain to them for so many years.

    And I have the Lord’s promise that they will all eventually come around. If it were not for that promise made to me, I don’t know that I could have endured this long.

    And the Biggest complaint I have recieved from my family, is that I just can’t keep these things to myself and insist on sharing it with other members at the expense of them thinking I am crazy or apostate and it brings a bad light upon my family.

    But one thing is for sure…If persistence means anything to the Lord, then I should become highly exhauted for my insistence on being a crazy apostate.

    But it is very consoling for me to read your comments and know that I’m not alone. I highly prize the accurate assesments of others who have made themselves accountable to the truth.

    Truth can sometimes be a bear to cope with. But in the end it’s got to be worth it. I hope so, anyway…

    For now, I find comfort in my personal relationship with the truth and being able to see that others have that as well.

    It sems that we are spread out all over the place and are not found in very concentrated proportions. I’m sure that is all apart of the Lord’s Plan to get the message out and not hide it among the Saints.

    And it is the Lord’s Way of testing us for a willingness to stand for truth at all cost and prepare His special troops for future callings.

    I really value your comments and those of a similar nature that others express.

    I’m looking foward to the day we are gathered and can actually meet each other.

    I believe that day to come shortly before the end of 2012. There’s a long story behind that estimation and I hope it is true.

    Anyway, Good Luck or should I say, God’s Blessings be with you as you remain Faithful to the Truth.

    Hardly ANY caps….Pretty good, neh ?

  20. Zack says:

    John Petersen…Your comments concerning Joseph Smith being this OMS is not consistent with his own teachings concerning Resurected beings having only limited contact with the affairs of this world. And that prolonged assitance from Heaven involves Translated beings incorporated for that purpose.

    And Joseph was not translated and therefore, if he IS resurected at this point, he is disqualified for this job.

    The justifications you list, consistenly fit a totally different paradigm involving Raising a Man from Among us to a translated state and returning from Heaven with His New Comission to place the Lord’s House in order.

    As far as Harold B Lee being the one who was the one to suffer death in sec. 85, the one to suffer death is NOT in good favor with God and is being Punished for his deception of the Saints, when confronted by the OMS.

    Harold B. Lee was trying to do the Good & Right thing in the eyes of God and does not deserve to “Fall by the shaft of death as a tree that is struck by the vivid shaft of Lightning “.

    But your obsevations of this being a conspiracy to SAVE the corporation is well founded and I’m sure is very accurate.

    It’s the “Corporation” being the epitome of Babylon of the modern world, that is the Evil Component of the Church that needs cleansing and all those who directly support & benefit from it…ie. Our Leaders.

    This is “The Mystery of Iniquity” being refered to in the Book of Revelations and in Nephi’s discourse on something we should avoid allowing to get “Above Us”.

    And according to the church’s official definition of what this Mystery of Iniquity is, according to the foot notes in the scriptures, it is a “Secret Combination”.

    One that THEY are peratrating on us and will soon Reveal itself.

    There is so much speculation as to who or what the OMS is to be. But one thing is certain….There will be NO MISTAKING this guy when he shows up clothed with “Light” as Moses was when coming down from the Mount and bearing a “Septer” or Staff in his hand.

    These are TWO UNMISTAKABLE signs of the Real Deal. And I should also include a 3rd sign ….He comes speaking “Eternal Word’s of Truth” that the Righteous will recognize in his voice.

    The False Prophet will also manifest False Miracles as did Pharo’s Cronies were able to conjure up, and probably be Much More Convincing than their’s. And will be MORE concerned with Bedazzeling us with his great powers, as opposed to concentrating on Speaking Words of Eternal Truth that don’t grace his Spirit.

    But we should remember the specific SIGNS attributed to the OMS that this False Prophet will NOT be able to duplicate. Nor ALLOWED to by God, so that the Righteous will have 3 Sure Signs to depend on for the truth.

  21. Zack says:

    By the way…I rate this post and comments I have read, with a 5 star rating. Next to being Spiritually Connected to our Savior, the next most important thing is to know the things discussed in this post because it is THE THING that we are here for and will effect us MOST.

  22. Zack says:

    That dude in the picture above, is a perfect representation of the demeanor the False Prophet will display….” Look at ME” “See what POWER I have” ?

    And this will be the selling point to Decieve the wicked among us who have a Superficial Image of God in their Hearts & Minds.

    I’ll shut my mouth now and go bother someone on a different post.

  23. Dave P. says:

    John,

    I started reading the link you posted to http://www.mormonstruth.org/antichrist.html and made a very important connection when I read the part that mentioned Joseph Smith giving the priesthood to women: There are women who are called prophetesses in both the Old and New Testaments (Deborah and Anna are examples) and I believe it was Joseph Smith who taught that prophets are called and ordained by God himself. This means that women called as prophetesses have always held the Melchizedek Priesthood! That just blows me away!

  24. zo-ma-rah says:

    Well Dave P. prophecy is simply a gift of the spirit. But aren’t there also preistesses and deaconesses mentioned in scripture?

  25. Dave P. says:

    Just goes to show I still have a lot to study.

  26. Yes David, for every title a man is given in the Priesthood, there is an equal title for women.

    Prophet, Priest, & King
    Prophetess, Priestess, & Queen

    It is my understanding that each of these is the title of a level of the Celestial Kingdom. Wasn’t Moses’ sister a prophetess?

  27. It occurred to me not too long ago that the One Mighty & Strong section may be the very thing the Anti-Christ points to assume his authority. After all, some LDS leaders have claimed the One Mighty and Strong would be some future bishop who would put the affairs of the church is order.

  28. zo-ma-rah says:

    Hmm insteresting. I definatly think that when the One Mighty and Strong comes it will be an interesting situation. I think only those who have been actively studying God’s word will be able to tell. Those who only study what the manual tells them will not be able to tell. They will go with the “official” answer.

  29. Quoting Zack:

    “And this guy will say there IS NO Nuclear War coming to us, or if it DOES, we will be PROTECTED from it.”

    This is the wine/drunkeness Isaiah talks about in several places (especially Isaiah 28, which I referenced earlier). They delude themselves into believing they can continue living in sin (being a part of the world and partaking in its evil commerce system and all that it entails) and still have the protection of God.

  30. zo-ma-rah says:

    The scriptures tell us that the world will be afraid to make war with Zion. Why? Maybe because we will have the most boring sacrament meetings around? No. it wont be because we will have a huge army, although I do think there will be a military force of some kind. But it will be because we will be moving mountain and controlling the elements. This kind of power cannot be manifest in the current system of churchiness. We will have to become the most righteouss people this generation has ever seen.

    Most LDS say moving mountains is a power that only comes when God wants it to happen. But along with that is the person who uses taht power must be inline with God’s will. They must be living a celestial life.

  31. I really like the analogy of the wheat and the tares. It is said that the tares will be bound to be burned and that the wheat will be gathered into barns. You can interpret this quite literally. The tares are bound by their minds. They stay in the big cities, leaning on their own understanding, listening to the soothsayers who say, “All is well in Zion.” In contrast, the wheat study things out for themselves and find the organization God set up outside the institutionalized church; they leave the big cities and gather into the mountains and start preparing for the tribulations to come. The burning is quite literal. Where do you expect to terrorist attacks and nukes to strike? It’s quite obvious: heavily populated areas – big cities. It’s all foretold in Isaiah, for those who have eyes to see. Why would Nephi quote so many chapters of Isaiah when writing was so difficult for them? Because it was IMPORTANT! Sorry for the ALL-CAPS Dave 🙂

  32. You’re right zo-ma-rah, only a sanctified people will possess those powers. Just like in Star Wars, you have to be either very good or very bad. The lukewarm have no power. They are sheep to be driven and trampled underfoot by the true powers.

  33. Zack,

    I also believe the gathering will happen before the end of 2012. I have this theory that the 3.5 year period of mild tribulation began in the middle of 2009, when Obama gave his peace speech to the Muslim nations in Cairo, Egypt. This event was further punctuated by him receiving the Nobel Peace Prize a few months later. If you add 3.5 years to the middle of 2009, you end up around the end of 2012. The period of light tribulation is moved into the period of heavy tribulation when this treaty is broken. Around that time Obama will probably declare war on Iran, which will necessitate him making America a military state. You certainly want to be out of the FEMA run big cities by then. I would encourage you to be out far before then.

  34. It might seem harsh that Harold B. Lee was struck down and I agree his intentions were good, but was it God’s will? President Lee fits the bill of one who steadies the ark. The Biblical example is a man who notices the Ark of the Covenant faltering and out of a sense of concern, reaches forth his hand to steady it, to prevent it from hitting the ground. Even though this man’s intentions were good, he is punished for it, because it wasn’t his responsibility.

    You can’t find a President of the Church in recent history who tried to turn the Church around more than President Lee. He was a noble and good man, but he acted without revelation in this regard and was assassinated for his effort. I am quite convinced of that.

  35. zo-ma-rah says:

    Wilford Woodruff tried to save the church with the Manifesto. He was killed while amongst the Babylonian leaders at the Bohemian Grove.

  36. Quoting Zack:

    “John Petersen…Your comments concerning Joseph Smith being this OMS is not consistent with his own teachings concerning Resurected beings having only limited contact with the affairs of this world. And that prolonged assitance from Heaven involves Translated beings incorporated for that purpose.

    And Joseph was not translated and therefore, if he IS resurected at this point, he is disqualified for this job.

    The justifications you list, consistenly fit a totally different paradigm involving Raising a Man from Among us to a translated state and returning from Heaven with His New Comission to place the Lord’s House in order.”

    I agree that their contact is limited, but not to the degree you describe. Didn’t God the Father and Jesus Christ (both resurrected beings) appear to Joseph Smith to set in order the house of God and begin the restoration period? Several other resurrected beings also appeared to Joseph as well. Moroni, John the Baptist, Peter, James, and John, Moses… Resurrected beings (Celestial) aren’t as limited as you assume. They have an immense amount of responsibility on the “other side” and thus a limited amount of time to participate directly in the affairs of mortals. Also it’s painful to lower their state to make themselves visible to mortals, so it’s not surprising that they do it infrequently, especially when they have arch-angels (Terrestrial) to act as messengers for them. However, sometimes the situation requires that they manage it personally. I argue this prophesied setting in order was one situation that required it.

  37. Zo-mo-rah, if that is the case, then Wilford Woodruff is also a candidate for the ark-steadier. Regardless who this man is, the narrative seems to be that one man tries to set the Church in order too soon and is struck down. Around this time, or maybe awhile later, the One Mighty and Strong finally arrives on the scene and does the job assigned to him.

  38. Wilford Woodruff lived to 91 years old. That’s old, even for a Church President! I kind of doubt there was foul play involved in his death. I don’t rule it out, but it’s not nearly as obvious as Harold B. Lee, who died at 74. The only Church President to die at an earlier age was Joseph Smith.

  39. Dave P. says:

    Since zo-ma-rah mentioned the Bohemian Grove, let’s just say that one does not want to stumble into what they’ve reported getting caught doing there.

  40. JMW says:

    The Angel Moroni spoke of the One Might and Strong when he came to Joseph in 1823. He quoted Isaiah 11 which is the prophecy of the 3 davidic servants and the grandfather of all the Messiah Ben Joseph / Messiah Ben David (Son of Jesse) prophecies.

    Sect 113 gives further light on it. Says that the Stem of Jesse is Christ.
    It says the Rod that comes from the Stem it’s a servant in the hand of Christ that is a partial descendant of Ephraim and Jesse. This is Joseph Smith.

    Who’s the root? Well the Root is also a descendant of Ephraim and Jesse who will “unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.” << One Mighty and Strong.

    The church thinks its gathering but they keep the members scattered throughout the world so it's no reference to any president of our church.

    My guess is, if it is not Joseph Smith, he'll be like an Abinadi/Jesus. He'll come from outside the authority structure, the priesthood will be his by right of birth just like Christ's.

    You see Judah will be able to stand in the day of Judgment and argue, you sent the Christ to us when Israel is scattered. How is that fair? Yes we rejected them but we're only 1 tribe of the house 2 if you count the levites. How is it fair that the remaining 10-11 tribes get to witness him in his glory as he comes to them after the resurrection?

    You see I think that Joseph Smith was to gather enough of Israel in the last days to form a people, that people would slowly change it's times and laws (Daniel 7, refering to the beast that would wear out the saints of the most high) and slip deeper into darkness. The church would have a hierarchy similar to what the Jews had in Christ's day, based on Obedience as the first law above Love which Christ taught, infallible etc. Then God would send a prophet unto them from outside the authority structure and try them just like Judah was tried with Christ. It's only fair. The first will be last and the last will be first.

  41. JMW,

    It seems someone has been studying Gileadi 😉

    I recently bumped into a G.A. (one of the 70s) who also predicted the state of apostasy the general church membership: H. Verlan Andersen.

    Here’s the relevant chapter from his book “The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil” titled “The Apostasy of the Latter Days” which was written back in 1972.
    http://ldsremnant.com/content/view/16/33/

    He is spot on in his use of the scriptures. He shows that this final apostasy was prophesied in the Book of Mormon.

    Gileadi says we can expect things to be the same (or worse) during Christ’s 2nd coming as they were during his 1st. We can’t expect that we ourselves or our leaders have been untouched by the rampant sin surrounding us. So goes the nation, so goes the church of God, unless they truly separate themselves out as Isaiah pleaded for us to do.

  42. I may just be blowing smoke here, and someone else may have already noticed (I haven’t finished reading all the comments), but it seems possible that verses 7 and 8 might be referring to two separate persons.

    Verse 7 tells us the one mighty and strong will appear, and then verse 8 seems to say, that meanwhile, THIS OTHER GUY, someone who will try to steady the ark, will be destroyed for making that attempt.

    So, is this saying that while the one mighty and strong comes to put God’s house in order, the other guy tries to “steady the ark”, i.e. keep the church’s status quo in place?

    It would imply that the verse 8 guy was at one time called and appointed, and that’s where things kind of fall apart for me. I’m not certain the current leadership were called and appointed, as they seem more like usurpers to me at this time. What do the rest of you think?

    • Justin says:

      Rock, I too have read 7 and 8 as referring to two persons.

      Further, I’ve always seen verse 8:

      While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God,

      as a way to explain why current LDS leaders aren’t doing anything about the condition of the church.

      Even if we could grant that they are called of God and appointed [who would have appointed them anyway? The keys of the church, i.e. the LDS] — they can’t put forth their hand to steady the ark.

      As priesthood holders, they are servants to the members — a servant cannot act outside of the bounds given him by his master [that’s the keys of the church, i.e. the LDS].

      On a separate note — along that same line of thought — I consider it a good sign that LDS leaders are not claiming they’ve received revelations on one subject or another.

      To me, in settling an issue like changes in sacrament administration [for example] — it would just be easier for leaders to just come out and say: “Hey, we received revelation from God that priests should now administer the sacrament in the presence of the elders [or whatever].” Then the membership would rubber-stamp a sustaining vote on it and there’d be no more controversy on the matter.

      At least the leaders are honest enough to not pretend to receive actual revelation. They know they are just making the stuff up as they go — using their own wisdom, etc.

      I worry about the coming day when leaders begin to say they are receiving direct revelation. Then it will be the issue of, “How do we know they are actually receiving it and not just saying that they are.” Things are easier now b/c they aren’t pretending to be speaking “Thus saith the Lord…”

      • Dave P. says:

        Justin,

        That’s when it becomes our responsibility to have knowledge and awareness against deceiving practices. Two of the greatest keys of understanding if a revelation comes from God or not are that it will never contradict a previous revelation and that it will not condone anything that would make us surrender our agency (both of which are why I lay the claim of the commandment to practice plural marriage as coming from satan, not from God since it violates both of those conditions).

        And I would also aruge that the leaders do pretend to receive revelation, but they also have the back door of being able to say, “The prophet doesn’t have to say, ‘Thus saith the Lord.'” What are some of those “revelations” in the past 50 years? Returning the priesthood to blacks (a political move), Hinckley’s idea of building smaller temples to meet his quota of 100 by the year 2000 (greater incentive to get members to pay their tithing), “raising the bar” for missionaries (maintain that PR image), the Perpetual Education Fund (help people earn more money to increase tithing funds even more), etc.

        Rock outlines the process in which the Lord prescribed the church receiving and accepting new revelation: The Lord will make known that He is the one speaking, there must be a second witness present, and the written copy of said revelation must be presented to the church in conference for the members to acknowledge and accept by a vote of common consent.

      • Justin says:

        Dave:

        Rock outlines the process in which the Lord prescribed the church receiving and accepting new revelation: The Lord will make known that He is the one speaking, there must be a second witness present, and the written copy of said revelation must be presented to the church in conference for the members to acknowledge and accept by a vote of common consent.

        I agree with that definition — and the leaders don’t pretend to do this. Thus, now is the easier time to be in b/c I easily discern all the “backdoor” tactics and can essentially write-off the ridiculous things I hear come out of Salt Lake.

        The leaders don’t pretend to receive revelation — they pretend that what they receive is revelation.

        That’s when it becomes our responsibility to have knowledge and awareness against deceiving practices.

        Which is why I described a time in which members need to have that responsibility as being harder than it is right now. Currently, no one has that responsibility b/c no GA is claiming “Thus saith the Lord” about anything.

      • I agree and give them props for at least not claiming to speak for the Lord. While others (my wife, for one) are of the opinion that the Brethren are being deliberately deceitful, I don’t share that opinion. I think they’re doing the best they can, seeing as how the church has long since run out of fuel and is now just driving on fumes.

    • John Peterson says:

      If you look at the biblical example of the ark steadier, you’ll see several things:

      1) They were an Israelite and follower of God.
      2) They saw something valuable to God in jeopardy.
      3) They tried to rescue it.
      4) They were stricken down by God because they were not appointed to do the rescuing.

      It’s not that God didn’t plan on rescuing the ark, he most certainly did, but the man who was attempting to do it was assuming authority God had not given him.

      If you really want to get an understanding of what is meant by this section, you should read the book of Ezra that it refers to.

      • John Peterson says:

        I’d like to highlight a reference I made above to demonstrate that I’m not the only one who believes the ark steadier was Harold B. Lee.

        “In November 19, 1973 President Harold B. Lee had signed documents for dissolving the Corporation of the President… President Lee was repenting for being a money changer and wanted to get the Apostles out of the money business. All President Lee needed to do was present this dissolution at April, 1974 General Conference, in compliance to D&C 26… Five weeks after his noble act, President Lee mysteriously dies. In 1973… Some Mormon and Biblical Scholars wondered if President Lee was the fulfillment of prophesies in Deuteronomy 18:20-22 and D&C 85:8 about a fallen Prophet. Officials of the United States wanted to know if President Harold B. Lee had been murdered.” (http://www.mormonstruth.org/antichrist.html)

      • Dave P. says:

        I’ve also learned a ton from the mormonstruth.org and its sister sites (even met Steve and Karen Davis face-to-face and they are awesome people), but I disagree with the idea of Harold B. Lee being the “ark steadier.” Bear with me because this will be a long one. (It will also make sense if you read the link I posted at the bottom of the comments thread: http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2008/06/uzzah-killed-for-blind-obedience/ ) Also for the purpose of this explanation, it’s best to look at the ark as the symbol of the ancient Israelites’ and the modern church’s covenant with God.

        First off, we have to understand that David was transporting the ark in an unauthorized manner; placing it on an ox cart instead of having two Levites carry it. The scripture implies that the Lord influenced the oxen’s falling in order to cause the ark to begin to fall over, and Uzzah was smitten because of his attempt at holding up a hijacked covenant carried along without authorization. When ancient Israel departed from the Lord and worshiped idols, the Lord allowed them to be invaded and taken over. This story of the Lord allowing the ark to fall off the cart is an example of Him allowing us our free agency, but also the consequences of not keeping our covenants with Him. Had David transported the ark according to the covenant, then Uzzah wouldn’t have even needed to attempt to hold up the falling ark as it would not even had fallen to begin with.

        Fast forward to the modern church. As Rock explained in one of his posts, the federagl government disbanded the church in the 1890s and Heber J. Grant reorganized it as the Corporation of the President in the 1920s with the church president (“prophet”) as the sole leader. No common consent. No unanimity with the apostles. No reason for God to keep His part of the covenant. Thus the ark was placed on the ox cart and carried along. When Harold B. Lee signed the papers to dissolve the corporation, the legs of the oxen stumbled and the false method of carrying the covenant began to collapse.

        If President Lee was indeed murdered, my argument is that he was not the one trying to steady the ark; he was killed by the one(s) who were! The corporation was dissolved and the church leaders had (I believe) 120 days to restore it: which they didn’t do. Thus the legs of the oxen are still broken and the leaders are still trying to hold up the falling ark and trying to carry it along as if nothing had happened.

        Verse 8 may be talking about one or multiple people, but may take on it refers to it talking about the same person whom God called and appointed as the anti-Christ who did more to prop up the image of the church and the idea of “All is well in Zion” than anyone else in the modern church.

  43. Dave P. says:

    You bring up an interesting point with that idea, Rock, and it definitely warrants further pondering.

    In the meantime I can firmly attest that the experiences of the One Mighty and Strong will parallel that of Abinadi calling King Noah and his priests to repentance and that means there will be an Alma as well. We can speculate on who it will be until the cows come home (I’m of the opinion that it will be Richard G. Scott), but the best action we can take now is to fully learn about what the church needs to repent of and pray that the people will be able to recognize those same follies and abominations.

    Our situation is much worse than King Noah’s, because not only has the church been lulled into a false sense of security and many members believe that the prophet can do no evil (see Mosiah 12:13-15), but there are several higher-ups within the church who have also accepted and joined the secret oaths and combinations of Gadianton.

    The warnings given in the Book of Mormon are unbelievably clear if one reads it with the following key: the “Gentiles” are not people outside of the House of Israel nor are they those who don’t belong to the church. They are the members of the modern, corporate church that, according to Moroni, has been polluted! I recently realized that that same key of understanding applies to the book of Revelation as well.

    • Justin says:

      In the meantime I can firmly attest that the experiences of the One Mighty and Strong will parallel that of Abinadi calling King Noah and his priests to repentance and that means there will be an Alma as well. We can speculate on who it will be until the cows come home (I’m of the opinion that it will be Richard G. Scott)

      I’m curious if you have received this as a revelation — i.e. as a spiritual manifestation showing the future cleansing moment that showed Richard turning [as did Alma].

      • Dave P. says:

        It was by means a combination of a personal spiritual witness and logic after doing additional research from the Book of Mormon and from other truth seekers. In Mosiah 13:10, Abinadi prophesies that his situation would be a type and a shadow of things to come. As I make the claim that the current church leadership parallels that of King Noah (a “king/president” position with 12 high priests), then an Abinadi and Alma would fulfill the rest of the type and shadow prophecy with the One Mighty and Strong of course being Abinadi (including the attempts on his life).

        And my opinion of the Alma parallel being Elder Scott simply comes from observing his fruits as an apostle. He once gave a powerful talk while I was at BYU discouraging blind obedience and not being afraid to ask questions (he’s also the only one who memorizes his talks ahead of time so he can look at the audience rather than the teleprompter, but that’s more of a logistical thing). After his wife died, he stated that he will not remarry because his wife appeared to him and urged him not to (as plural marriage is still being practiced in the temples in the form of sealing a man to multiple wives). Finally, as of when he was called as an apostle, he was the only member of the quorum to not be related in some way to another general authority.

        So, in a nutshell, that’s what I’ve learned and have been praying about. I’ve not received a great manifestation, but I have the strong conviction that I’m searching in the right direction, especially in regards of the Book of Mormon literally being written for us as members of the church in this day.

    • Point well taken, Dave, and I should amend my comment to Justin above to read that in my opinion, many or most (but by no means not all) of the Brethren are good mean trying their best. I’m not opposed to the idea that one or two “moles” have infiltrated and have subtly steered the church off course.

    • John Peterson says:

      I totally agree with your statement:

      “The warnings given in the Book of Mormon are unbelievably clear if one reads it with the following key: the “Gentiles” are not people outside of the House of Israel nor are they those who don’t belong to the church. They are the members of the modern, corporate church that, according to Moroni, has been polluted!…”

      Elder H. Verlan Andersen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Verlan_Andersen) also agreed with you. He wrote a whole chapter about the Gentile apostasy in his book “The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil” titled “The Apostasy of The Latter Days.”

      You can read it here:
      http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/hva_great/chapter_18.html

  44. zo-ma-rah says:

    Here’s just some thoughts about verse 8. I had to simply the grammar to understand it.

    8 [While that man, shall fall by the shaft of death].

    What man?

    8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed,[…] shall fall by the shaft of death.

    So whoever this man is he is called of God an appointed. We know many are called but few are chosen.

    8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death.

    So this man who is called of God and appointed is putting forth his hand to steady the ark of God. Since the One Mighty and Stroong is also appointed could it be that the act of steadying the ark is not passing control of the church to the one mighty and strong. The path God has dictated for the church will be that it is to be passed to the one mighty and strong. Then he who is doing the steadying will be one who thinks the ark(the church) is tipping(going with the One Mighty and Strong), and tries to steady it.

    I would assume that steadying it means trying to keep the church in the hands of present leadership.

    A thought about church leaders. I recently had an insight into church leadership today. I’ve had to revise my model. I do believe that church leaders receive revelation for the operation of the church. But if we read Ezekiel 14 we know that God will revel things to people according to their idols. I can only assume that the church as a whole including its leaders have come to accept our cultural traditions as true. Therefor those tradition are idols. And God will speak to people according to these idols.

    Why do church leaders not receive revelation concerning the law of Consecration and gathering to Zion? Becasue that is not where their hearts are. Their hearts are in building up the church around the world. building temples everywhere and organizing stakes everywhere. So that is what God will speak to them about.

    If all of us could only get rid of our idols then we could receive some communication directing us on the real path God wants.

    • John Peterson says:

      I find it so ironic that you brought up Ezekiel 14! You’ve got to read this short article on it that I recently bumped into. I had never heard of it until I read this article. Joseph Smith placed great emphasis on this chapter by referring to it twice in his ministry, near the beginning and near the end.

      http://blogs.standard.net/eye-of-faith/2011/01/05/message-from-joseph-smith-to-captive-saints/

    • John Peterson says:

      Idolatry has always been a HUGE problem for Israelites. It shouldn’t be a surprise that a large portion of the Ten Commandments was focused on it. My favorite exegesis on the topic (so far) is the writings of Gileadi in “The Last Days” found in the first chapter titled “The Twelve Diatribes of Modern Israel.”

      • Dave P. says:

        I’d argue that idolatry is still a problem today because the members of the modern church seem to look more towards the “king” position that the president of the church holds rather than directly towards Jesus Christ. The people still want to have someone tell them everything they need to do and expect him to “save” them. The remained of this is taken word-for-word from another comment I recently wrote back over at Rock’s blog:

        It only gets better from there. If you think about it, the covenant people in nearly every dispensation has rejected the Lord as their king. Moses invited the children of Israel to go up onto the mountain with him, they refused and so the Lord gave them the lesser law. Israel rejected the Lord in favor of a king and all three of the first kings whom the Lord hand-picked all fell (though David repented). The Savior never established a First Presidency, but it’s assumed that Peter was in that “king” position. Same with the modern-day church. Joseph Smith was only ever called as the first elder of the church and as an apostle (which Paul mentioned as being greater than a prophet), but for whatever reason he did not accept the call to be a member of the Quorum of the Twelve and instead established the First Presidency, that same “king” position. The Lord played along because he’d given Joseph the warning that he’d be like Joseph of Egypt by having seven years of plenty and seven years of famine in a spiritual sense to act as a learning experience. After 1844, when Joseph began to repent, the Lord warned him to flee to the Rockies to complete his repentance. He feared man more than God, lost the protection of the Lord, and was killed in Carthage.

        Shift the narrative over to Parley P. Pratt and his revelation (recorded in his autobiography) that Joseph still held the keys of the dispensation and that the Quorum of the Twelve was to lead the church as a whole (with the presiding bishop handling the temporal affairs), by witnessing of Jesus Christ, preaching the gospel, and teaching the members correct principles so they would govern themselves. This worked for the next several years until Brigham Young decided to re-establish the First Presidency with himself in that “king” position (and it’s quite possible that he did this under threat of force from the Danites, I’ll need to look more into it), but had absolutely no authority to do so because he did not have the keys; Joseph Smith still had them! This is the start of the fulfillment of Daniel 7:24 with Brigham Young as the first of the ten kings without kingdoms. Joseph Smith may have given the Quorum of the Twelve the authority to exercise the priesthood keys as a group, but he did not give them the authority to collectively hand them over to one person. The most senior apostle is still the president of the quorum, but the affairs of that office are still only limited to within the quorum itself.

        However my main point is this: The church is not supposed to have nor does it need a “king” position because Jesus Christ is our king. By maintaining that we need a “prophet” to lead us, we reject God and revert back to being the children of Israel who had to be commanded in all things and were given the Law of Moses as a result. I’ve come to learn that wanting someone other than God to be its “king” is one of the follies and abominations that the church needs to repent of.

      • John Peterson says:

        There are church records that men were being sealed in the Nauvoo temple as prophets, priests, and kings from 1843-1844. I’d be interested in seeing your evidence that Joseph “repented” of taking on the office of King. If he retained that position of authority up until his death, wouldn’t he still hold it? If he’s a King, what is his dominion? Just his immediate family?

        I happen to believe there is an eternal hierarchy that extends into the heavens and that just because a man dies, his position is not removed. Joseph rules over the Church members in this dispensation now just as much as he did in the flesh, as does Christ, Moses, Abraham, etc. Now Abraham does not rule over us, he rules the people of his dispensation. A fundamental tenet of Mormonism is eternal bonds. That isn’t restricted to just marital bonds between man and wife. Joseph made it clear that it extends to father and son as well.

    • Terry says:

      zo-ma-rah said:

      A thought about church leaders. I recently had an insight into church leadership today. I’ve had to revise my model. I do believe that church leaders receive revelation for the operation of the church. But if we read Ezekiel 14 we know that God will revel things to people according to their idols. I can only assume that the church as a whole including its leaders have come to accept our cultural traditions as true. Therefor those tradition are idols. And God will speak to people according to these idols.

      I really got some strong confirmations of the truth of what you said here. I think that this even happens (receiving revelation according to their idols) with very righteous people -even those who have had their calling and election made sure and even some who have received the Second Comforter. Their are those from among people who have had these kinds of experiences who are still firm in their belief that the Prophet will lead us into the millinenium without any bumps in the road and without any interference from any Mighty and Strong ones; we’ll be just fine if we just follow the Prophet. On the other hand there are others from this elect group who assure us that if we follow the Prophet or any other man then we trust in the arm of flesh and make flesh our arm and will not find ourselves triumphant in Zion but will end up disappointed in the Telestial kingdom. I’ve never fully understood how there could be such a wide divergence of understanding among the very righteous among us. I thought we were supposed to, at some level on the spiritual ladder, see eye to eye. However, Nephi tells us,

      2Nephi 28:14 … they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

      I suppose even the very elect can find it hard to part with all of the traditions of their fathers; and even with them The Lord will, as you say, speak to them according to their idols.

      I know that I’m speaking to an old post, but I was receiving such flashes of confirming light while reading it that I just had to respond.

  45. Dave P. says:

    Because I do not believe in coincidences, I must share this excellent commentary on the original story of “steadying the ark” and the point it makes about verse 8 at the end:

    http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2008/06/uzzah-killed-for-blind-obedience/

    Found it while reading through the comments on the By Common Consent blog’s latest “firestorm” post.

  46. Michael says:

    I read this blog now and then as I like the topics covered and generally agree with much of what is said.

    I would like to note that the guy who runs mormonstruth.org is a bit of a nut. Brigham Young was not a 33rd degree mason and I doubt the rest of them were (maybe some of the modern leaders have gotten in with that crowd (Cheney/Bush friendly “handshakes” but we have no way of knowing that). Brigham Young was a Master Mason (3rd degree). When people start spouting off garbage, they loose all credibility in my book.
    To demonstrate, I will try my hand at his little game: Peter, James, and John were 33rd Degree Masons who took over Christ’s church 2000 years ago and injected their masonic unction to deceive the Christians. Boy, it is fun to make claims with no proof or accountability!
    Also, the masonic lodge of Utah banned Mormons from joining for a very long time. I guess poor old 33rd degree Brigham Young was so powerless over his own organization. I’d laugh but it is really too stupid.
    As for the ten kings, maybe we should all go back and study the Revelation of John and form some valid ideas. The Kings will receive kingdoms when their hour is come. It’s called a prophecy. It happens when someone teaches future events by the power of God. It’s right in the text but apparently this guy is not smart enough to just read without interjecting his claims without evidence.
    As for his story of Herald B. Lee, please provide evidence. This site gives a different story, but actually provides evidence: http://www.moneyteachers.org/Corporation+Church+Jesus+Christ+Latter+Day+Saints.html
    I think it likely Herald B. Lee was murdered but we simply don’t have enough to go on, to make conclusive statements.

    Why do I say this? Because I feel some of you are the elect of God. You can discern that something is very wrong in the modern church. I don’t want any of you to be among the elect who are led away by crafty men.

    I recommend you read sections from the Second Book of Commandments. It’s the only set of new revelations I’ve read that is compatible and comparable to the word of the Lord revelations that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and Wilford Woodruff received (and it give me an understanding of Adam-God that actually works within the context of the Joseph Smith and the scriptures, something that Brigham Young lacked). http://www.2bc.info/

    • Samuel the Lamanite says:

      25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.

      26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.

  47. Richard says:

    Hi Zomarah

    Why do you think that verse 8 is talking about the same person as verse 7? I have never heard anyone say that.

    Verse 7 implies that there will be a need to set things in order– or why send the OMS to do it? Verse 8 predicts that someone “ordain by God” will see the need and TRY to set things in order BEFORE the one God has ordained to do it– but they will be struck down by God. In other words, verse 8 is talking about someone in authority, but not with the authority to do the work of the OMS.

    My own conviction is that the OMS will be Adam when he returns to AOA. In a letter to Brigham Young, dated May 6, 1867, W. W. Phelps mentioned that he believed that Smith’s prophecy refers to Adam and his future arrival at Adam-Ondi-Ahman. Since D&C 85 was taken from a letter from Joseph Smith to W.W. Phelps, it is believable that Phelps would know more about the matter.

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mighty_and_Strong

    Richard

    • John Peterson says:

      Ditto on your take of verse 7 and 8. You give a very clear description.

      When considering who the OMS is, we must consider the prophecies of what is to happen.

      1) The general church membership slides into apostasy. (3 Nephi 16:10-15; D&C 103:8-10; Daniel 7:21)
      2) A prominent church leader (possibly the president of the Church) sees this backsliding and attempts to correct it, for which he is struck dead. (D&C 85:8)
      3) The OMS sets in order the house of God. (D&C 85:7; Ezra 1-10; D&C 101:55-56; D&C 103:21,35)
      4) A “remnant” of saints return to Jackson County and build the temple in the New Jerusalem. (D&C 101:17-21; D&C 103:11, 15-20)
      5) Christ returns to his sanctified people in the newly constructed temple. The millennial reign of Christ begins. Under the leadership of Christ, God’s people become a mighty and feared nation (Zion). (D&C 101:23, 57)
      6) The Old Jerusalem is besieged. Christ returns to the Old Jerusalem and saves them from destruction. The Jews repent and return to the House of Israel. Thus concludes the Battle of Armageddon.
      7) The forces of evil continue to plot to destroy the Kingdom of God. They build up a 200 million man army for one last conflict. The righteous defeat all wickedness in the Battle of Gog and Magog. Satan is bound. ((Revelation 9:16; D&C 101:24)
      8) Adam returns to the earth and blesses his posterity at Adam-ondi-Ahman. (D&C 101:25; D&C 116:1; Daniel 7:9-14, 21-22)

      You have to eliminate steps 4-7 to conclude that step 3 and 8 are the same (i.e. Adam is the OMS).

      If you read the references I gave for step 3, you’ll discover who the OMS is.

      • Richard says:

        John,
        There is no scriptural guarantee that the OMS is the same as the “One like unto Moses” mentioned in D&C 103:15-18

        15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
        16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
        17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
        18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

        So your point 3 could be fulfilled by the OLUM, and not by the OMS (Adam) who would come later.

        Remember what Daniel 12 says about Michael/Adam when he returns:

        1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
        2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
        3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

        Richard

      • John Peterson says:

        You make a good point about the OLUM and the OMS potentially not being the same. I personally don’t believe they are the same. I believe the OMS directs the OLUM (i.e. they are the same in purpose, but not in person). The primary reason I have a hard time believing the OMS is Adam is that the house of God will already be set in order before Christ comes (which is before Adam’s arrival). It is stated that he will be coming to a sanctified people. Sanctification implies that they are living all of God’s laws in the way God has commanded; in other words, they are set in order.

      • JMW says:

        How is Adam the One Mighty and Strong? Section 113, interpretation of Isaiah 11 says the Root of Jesse (who fits the description of OMS) has to be a descendant through both Jesse and Joseph.

        I think a resurrected Joseph Smith fits OMS far better. Joseph taught that Adam held the keys of the universe, Brigham taught that Adam was the Father and testified that Joseph taught him this. It was in the discourse before the veil in the temple from 1877 – 1903. The doctrine was pretty clear that Adam and Eve had to fall into the creation (see Nauvoo expositor proposition 2 against Joseph, he was teaching God had to fall into his creations << plural). That's how things are done.

        You read the 1839 sermon that Joseph gives to the 12 before they set off for England where Joseph explains what will happen at Adam-ondi-ahman he says Christ will come and receive the keys that were given to Adam, those being the keys of the universe. WTF would Adam be holding the keys of the universe if he were not the Father? If he were just some cabbage patch kid creation from the dust of this Earth? It's because Brigham was right, Adam is the Father of both our spirits and our ultimate father of our bodies. Adam-ondi-ahman is just the Father handing the birthright(the creation) to his first born (Jesus). It doesn't make him subordinate at all nor does it make Jesus greater than the Father/Adam. Joseph states that he retains his place as head of the human family. Well that's exactly what Abraham teaches, that the work and glory is the family the immortality and eternal life of man NOT the creation, that's just a means to the end, a stewardship, and once he's done with it, he hands it off to his first born to govern who then helps the exalted to use it to exalt their own children. Joseph ties that all together in the King Follett discourse when explains those process of continual exaltation, the Father receives another stewardship from his father, his father receives another from his and so on.

        Daniel 7 says that satan wars with the saints until the ancient of days sits again on his throne on this Earth. Then dominion is given back to the saints. That's Adam's job, to bind satan for the millenium and give dominion back to the righteous.

        Joseph is OMW
        Section 90: 3 Verily I say unto you, the keys of this akingdom shall bnever be taken from you, while thou art in the world, neither in the world to come;

        16 And this shall be your business and mission in all your lives, to preside in council, and set in aorder all the affairs of this church and kingdom.

        Notice the "all your lives" with an S 😀

      • You make some good points JMW. I had to laugh when I ran across your “cabbage patch kids” statement.

        If your assertion that the Root of Jesse and the One Mighty & Strong are the same being, then the OMS certainly can’t be Adam. However, it’s hard to scripturally prove that Joseph Smith is the root. If the leadership order is stem > rod > root, then if Christ is the stem, you’d expect Joseph Smith to come next and be the rod. The root would then naturally be someone under Joseph. The “on whom there is laid much power” description of the rod certainly describes the OMS more than description of the root: “unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.”

  48. Toni says:

    Very interesting post and comments.

    I agree with Zack and Rock: two different people. It was my understanding that the one who fell would be a person ordained to an office, but whose action was not approved of God.

    It also seems to me that the “one mighty and strong” is Jesus. No one else fits the description in my mind. Not saying anyone has to agree with me, though.

    • JMW says:

      The One Mighty and Strong has to be a descendant of both Jesse/King David and Joseph/Ephraim (see D&C 113, root of Jesse). Explain how Jesus can fit that criteria.

      • I’ve heard that Mary was a descendant of Judah (through King David) and Ephraim.

      • Toni says:

        Well, let’s look at the scripture:

        D&C 85:7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;
        8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

        First, is the person spoken of in section 113 the same person who is spoken of in section 85? Personally, I don’t see that there is an ironclad connection, though I’m open to evidence to the contrary.

        The reason I think the above person is Christ is because he (TOM&S – omigosh, I just realized that acronym spells Thomas, without the h) is clothed with light. To my mind, that means he is literally wearing light. No mortal is going to be doing that. Also, I believe only Christ is a “fountain of truth”. He is the only one with authority to set in order the house of God. Notice the next verse. To me, that is saying that the human who has been called of God (the one people would normally think would be qualified to set things in order) will not be the one setting anything in order.

        If the one mighty and strong needs to be descended from Jesse and Joseph, I don’t think that’s a problem. When the tribes divided, part of Ephraim was left with Judah. John Peterson pointed out what he heard. Lehi, according to the Book of Mormon, was a descendent of Manasseh – (Joseph). So, I expect there were several people whose blood was not pure Judah by the time Christ was born.

      • Toni says:

        JMW, I just read some of your other recent posts. I didn’t think of a Resurrected Joseph Smith when I wrote my reply above. I still think the person will be Jesus, if there is such a person to come, but I don’t have any ego tied up in this idea. I’m fine with your idea possibly being true, and mine false.

      • Let’s follow some key phrases used to described the One Mighty & Strong.

        HOLDING THE SCEPTER OF POWER IN HIS HAND

        Consider the Stem, the Rod, and the Root of Jesse in D&C 113. It states clearly that the stem is Jesus Christ. It describes the rod in the following way:

        “…a servant in the hands of Christ … on whom there is laid much power.” (D&C 113:4)

        It seems here that the Stem, the Rod, and the Root are given in chronological order. If so, then it would make sense that if the Stem is Christ, then the Rod would be Joseph Smith, and the Root would be someone else who would follow Joseph.

        Another hint that Joseph is the Rod spoken of here is found in 2 Nephi 3:17

        “And the Lord hath said: I will raise up a Moses; and I will give POWER unto him in a ROD…”

        Isn’t a scepter a rod? Also, recall that Moses appeared to Joseph and gave him the Keys of Gathering. Most would consider Joseph a modern day Moses. He spoke with God as Moses did, he restored the Priesthood as Moses did, and and he gathered Israelites out of Egypt as Moses did.

        CLOTHED WITH LIGHT FOR A COVERING

        Obviously implication that this will be a resurrected being. Joseph will no doubt be resurrected when this event takes place.

        HIS BOWELS SHALL BE A FOUNTAIN OF TRUTH

        Here’s an excerpt from Joseph’s Patriarchal blessing:
        “from among my [Joseph Sr’s] seed, scattered with the Gentiles, shall a choice Seer arise whose bowles shall be as a FOUNTAIN OF TRUTH, whose loins shall be girded with the girdle of righteousness…”

        I can’t say all of the above are proof, but they are pretty good evidence. Besides, I’m of the firm belief that a man continues to hold the same authority after he passes as he had while alive. Joseph is still the head of this Dispensation and has responsibility for preparing his stewardship to meet Christ.

  49. Rob says:

    This interpretation just came to me, what if we use a computer/internet to help understand the verse? It seems like a plausible description that God would have used back then (similar to Isaiah 5:26-29, referring to future modes of transportation).

    *will send one mighty and strong”
    One of Webster’s definitions of mighty:
    “great in amount, extent, degree, or importance; exceptional: a mighty accomplishment.”
    When we look at the coverage and influence one person can have in the internet, that is “great in amount, extent, degree or importance.”
    Strength of course comes from the Lord.

    “holding the scepter of power in his hand”
    A computer(like a smartphone, tablet, etc)=scepter of power in his hand. I guess He could have said book of power in his hand, but that might confuse everyone with the Bible.
    I think of Marty McFly – “I know that didn’t seem like much to you, but your kids will love it.” Maybe God was pulling a Marty McFly by acknowledging that when the revelation was given, it didn’t seem like much to them, but in a future generation it would.

    “clothed with light for a covering”
    what about a computer screen? when someone sends their message via the internet, it comes through a computer screen of light. Maybe it’s not the correct interpretation, but if it is, the symbolism works.

    “whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words”
    Genesis 49:26 “The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills…” The eternal words might be similar. When someone utters words on the internet it goes around the world. Like the hills that are everlasting because they go around the world.

  50. Zack says:

    I’ve been away for some time & it is refreshing to be able to look over all that has been written on this post since last came upon it. There are a number of theories concerning the OMS being thrown out there so I thought I would just offer my own.

    As I glance over all that has been suggested as to clues concerning this man, I have developed somewhat of a composite idea of who & what I think this man may be, and just as importantly, who I think this man will be directly associated with..ie..The Two Witnesses of Rev & the 144,000.

    First off, I base this theory on the understanding that Isaiah gives us concerning all things future having their likeness in the past. So I begin with the past that we have been taught of..The Preexistence.

    We know God teaches us His Truths through the repeated use of Pattens of Revelation. This is what maes it possible for us to determine what lies ahead in our future by coming to know our past. Well, as it Begins…So shall it End.

    It begins with Our Father in Heaven and His Two Witnesses ( Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit ).
    The Three of them consitute the Covenant made between them to organize & implement the Plan of Salvation on behalf of God’s Children once we come to this earth.

    This is breaking things down to their basic element of Truth. All Truthful knowledge we gain in this life is Based upon those 3 things….God Our Father, Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit & the REST of us.

    Without getting into writing a book trying to describe this theory, I want t simply chop out every chapter of that explination and just go with the idea that the first chapter describes our Preexistent Past by which the final chapter of this theory is compared to.

    Taking into acount ALL of the clues offered to us in the scriptures concerning end time events and the characters associated with them, lets see if we can reconstruct the image of the Original God Had as we knew it from our Preexistent Past, when we Lived with them and are to soon Return to them…It’s All One Eternal Round…The same pattern & story REPEATS itself over & over again throuh every dispensation of time.

    The confusion arrises when only a SEGMENT of that Original Trio of the God Head is Separated out and too much emphasis is placed on any one figure without given consideation to the fact that they have ALWAYS Worked as ONE smooth single minded component. When in fact, the Pattern & Picture we develope in our minds concerning these End Time events and those 3 Characters should PERFECTLY BLEND.

    There ARE 3 main characters identified in the scriptures of playing the Key Roles of fulfilling God’s Will in these End Times….The OMS only being one of them. The Two Witnesses ALSO appearing as very prominant & important figures in this Pattern.

    AT this point…Look what we have….THREE figures to represent the Pattern of Life and peple we knew BEFORE we came here. Are we not on the verge of RETURNING to that Presence ? Thus we NEED to refresh our memories of that. OMS to represent Our Father in Heaven & the Two Witneses to represent Christ & The Spirit….Working TOGETHER.

    What were those Two Witnesses RELATIONSHIP to Our Father in the Beginning ?…Sons ?

    So in this case where we are about to REEMBARK upon that scene as the world finishes up it’s mortal probation…Piece together the piecies of the puzzle given to us and we find One Mighty & Strong Angel of God being assisted by His Two Sons.

    The scriptures TELL us WHO this final prophet and OMS is. He is the Holy Spirit Incarnate. That fact is emphasized by inferance in many scriptures from Genesis to Rev to the Book of Mormon, D&C, Dead Sea Scrolls ect..when veiwing the scriptures from a composite WHOLE of the God Head as it is revealed in Tpye throughout ALL of the scriptures and not viewed piece meal..

    Take into account the Lord’s Calendar given to Moses as a device by which God tracks all of His important upcoming things He has on His schedule, as ouccuring on Certain Set Days according to a Particular Pattern, then the year 2012 is to prove a PIVITAL year in which Heavenly Father “Suddenly Acts” to first begin the process of doing the “Strange Act” of first having to clean up the mess in His Own House BEFORE moving on to proceed with the “Marvelous Work & A Wonder” of all that will be required to Establish Zion.

    It’s too lengthy to get into all the explianation behind believeing the OMS to be the Holy Ghost Incarnate to fulfill His Earthly Mission, as the Bride Groom’s BEST FRIEND in preparing the Wedding Feast to follow, but here is a simple clue …HEAVENLY FATHER initiates this Work..Not Christ..Joseph Smith was the final Tpye for the one who would be contacted by Two Members of the God Head to initiate such an important work as the Restoration of the Lord’s KINGDOM & not merely laying it’s FOUNDATION ( The Church ) as di Joespeh Smith. That priviledge is reserved for the Lord’s Best Man & Friend from our PREEXISTENCE. They BEGAN this Work as described in Tpye in Zech ch. 4 and they will FINISH this Work TOGETHER, with Joshua ( A type for the Incarnate as well as anti mortal Spirit ), to be the OMS primary figure of Completing the Kingdom so that Christ ( Zerrubabel ) becomes it’s CAPSTONE of Achievement. And as is further depicted in ch 6, Peaceful Counsel shall be between them BOTH. How much plainer can the scriptures make it ? And there are HUNDREDS of these same patterns in TYPE…To include ALL THREE Members of the God Head working in CONCERT.

    This is what these final three Prophets are to depict….OUR BEGINNING…As is comes to a CONCLUSION…One Eternal Round….

  51. Zack says:

    Oh Yea….The 144,000 would be those of our preexistent Family of our past, who as CELESTIAL Children of God, ministered to the REST of God’s Children on the Lower Two Orders of God and are now here once more, getting ready to do the same thing in TIME. They wants to LIFT those people as HIGH as the can gets them by the “TIME” they have to LEAP UP to meet the GROOM.

    They are awaiting the Que of the Holy Spirit ( Bob or something ) & His Two Sons, to FIRST be called of God. See…Bob probably Holds the Key to Understanding the Terrestrial Translative Knowledge of what it takes to become a Mighty Angel. And them Two Boys of His had better listen to Him & do as their Dad Says….The REST of those 144,000 are probably getting tired of WAITING.

    I wonder what DAY on the Lord’s Calendar that OMS Guy is going to make His Appearance ? When did that LAST OCCUR at a different Coming of the Lord ? That “FORMER” Rain is going to be a Small Drizzle compared to the DOWN POUR FROM HEAVEN of the “LATTER” Rain…

    When ( Bob ) keeps that appointment that God has made with him, and that Mighty Angel of God in cogneto “Rises from the East” and Returns to Heaven for a Few More Instructions….It’s time to BOOGIE….

  52. Zack says:

    Here’s one last thought on the OMS….

    Being referred to as a God Himself & the Holy Spirit….What if THAT particular God was a SLOB like One Of US ? Just a STRANGER on a bus trying to make His Way Home ?

    What IF He were to START OUT as a Slob & BECOME Holy ? Is this what WE have experienced as God’s Imperfect Childen and are supposed to be doing ? Would not this OMS need to be someone WE could RELATE to & FOLLOW His example of Repentance & Embracing Perfect Righteous Behavior that LEADS to the OTHER God that is to soon arrive ? ( Righteousness PRECEEDS Salvation )….Sort of what Aarron did as a SPIRITUAL BUFFER between the Children of Israel & Moses ?

    The people at that time could not RELATE to Moses, so Aaron became a NECESARY LINK to getting the pople to ACCEPT Moses. Because HE was the one who STAYED with them in the Mud Pits of Egypt, while their Brother Moses had it MADE “UPSTAIRS”, in the House of Pharo.

    Does not Isaiah refer to what is about to happen as a SECOND & GREATER EXODUS ?

    Hum….maybe his name is Aaron & not Bob…..But then again…Only HE would know that for sure.

  53. Zack says:

    HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!

  54. Zack says:

    In response to the coments to some of Dave’s remarks made by Rock concerning the possibility of there being a “few moles” among the Brethren, ask yourself this question….

    If the organization of the Corporation of the Church IS the vehicle by which the Gaddianton Robbers Exist & Operate within the Lord’s Church….Then how many of those at the top levels of the Church who ARE rich, are NOT apart of an organization that would RECUSE themselves from selecting new Leaders who were NOT willing to be a part of that Gang ?

    Not many I would suspect…But I do feel, that the Lord DOES have a few Good men up there to one day serve as WITNISSES to the things they have observed…As per Joshua & His Spies.

    My theory as to HOW they are able on carry on with this sharade wihout being detected by the average member, is because they BELIEVE THEMSELVES to be using the Lord’s Tithes in a Righeous Manner, in regard to the Sheperds feeding THEMSELVES, as opposed to feeding the Sheep, as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah & others tell us.

    I believe they think themselves to be the “Chosen Righteous Few” among the mass of corrupt material degenerates at the bottom of this Hiarchy and are simply taking advantage of those in the Church to who they THINK are merely pawns of this World.. In their eyes they are living the Law of Consecration, that dictates their RIGHT to the Riches of Worldy People within the Church.

    The Lord did say…That there would come a time in Zion’s Future that the World & it’s Riches would become the sole propriatary possession of the Saints.

    They have become SO Prematurely Self Righteous in this view, that they CORRECTLY look upon the Greedy Material Desires of the current membership and are taking ADVANGE of that same Spirit of Greed. And merely skimming from the Top what belongs to THEM….What the Greedy Little Mice a the Bottom don’t realize, is that the Cats in the Kitchen have a MUCH BIGGER Appetite & only leave small token remnants for the mice to eat.

  55. Zack says:

    As a passing point of intrest in the year 2012 being some sort of significant time for change…I’m guessing there is to be some MAJOR CHANGES coming to the Church this year. Look for every major Feast, & Fast contained on the Lord’s Calendar, given to Moses to be a PERPETUAL sign fo us, for certain thing to occur on Set Days.

    I’ll name a few & what I believe will occur on those Set Days in Time.

    Passover: April 8th 2012….Look for the Anti Christ to appear in Spring Confrence in one of our Temples. I’m guessing it will be the “Resurrected” Navoo Temple ( The one God Destroyed ) & was built “Between the Seas” of the Altlantic & Pacific…Not to mention all those “Inverted Star” Widows placed at the TOP of the walls surrounding that Temple. By the way…The number 8 is a symbol for the Resurrected Christ.

    The next 49 days from the third day of Passover is referred to as the “Counting o the Omer”.

    This “Counting each day of the Omer, was to be conducted with “TREPIDATION” according to Jewish Custom. It was at the beginning of that count that the “EAST WINDS” from the Desert begin to BLOW EASTWARD over the crops of Israel & risk DESTROYING them. They would blow like clock work for “50 Days”. Does this sound FAMILAR ? Is the smbolgy PLAIN enough to see what future REFERENCE this holds for the Lord’s People ? This is a time of GREAT TREPIDATION for the people of MODERN DAY ISRAEL AS WELL….Israel as it now constitutes the members of the Lord’s Church.

    On the 50th Day ( Sunday May 27th in 2012 ) when those East Winds of Judgmnt cease, is when we come to the Day of the Feast of Weeks, or Pentecost as it is known in the Modern Christian venacular.

    WHO CAME ON THAT DAY at the time of the FIRST Coming of the Lord ?

    This becomes SHOWTIME for the confrontation between the Prophet the Lord DID NOT send & the One He DOES send….The “LATTER RAIN” in the FLESH. The Servant of God who offers Israel an ALTERNATIVE CHOICE to that of keeping Aliegence to a False God who IMMITATES the Savior.

    An WHEN would that TRUE Servant of God recieve His Call & Appointment from God, as the “Angel who RISES from the East” ?….10 Days prior to this on the Day of Asscention, when the Lord Himself Ascended to Heaven & HIS Father.

    The space of months between Then and next Fall is going to be a Very Interesting Time as the World will have already fallen into Financial & Politcal Chaos and the Enemy from the North ( Russia ) begins to POSTER toward War. And the only thing our Government can do is try to HIDE it from us, to prevent THEM from becoming the FOCUS OF RAGE among the American People who would LYNCH them is they KNEW the SEVERITY of the Circumstances we will face as an internally Busted Nation. We become SITTING DUCKS amist Our Own Civil War and Chaos…Just like Joseph, Brigham, Taylor & others have TOLD us would happen.

    September 17th, 2012 is the Feast of Trumpets, or the the time in which the INGATHERING of True Israel will BEGIN taking place before the Day of Judgmnt arrives. My best guess, is that the Day the Judgment begins with a First Strike by Russia, would begin sometime early Christmas Morning between Midnight & Dawn. MERRY PAGAN CHRISTMAS DAY ! A Day that is MOST SACRED to those of PAGIN ORIGINS….Satan has HIS Calendar of events as well. The Lord merely PERMITS Him to make those Appointments with Destiny for the Wicked.

    • Zack, Your timeline sounds too short. I do believe the Anti-Christ will appear shortly. How soon I can’t say. However, I do see an imminent famine and I’ll explain how and why. Already we’ve seen food prices rise due to monetary inflation (possibly by a factor of 2 to 3 times). This will continue to increase. There are however other causes that will intensify this famine. The end of the world will not come at the end of this year (2012). It will however be the beginning of a war between Iran and the United States. This war has the potential to escalate into the war of Armageddon spoken so much of in latter-day prophecy, but of that I can only speculate. What I’m fairly certain of is that this war will cause fuel prices to surge. Modern day agricultural prices are heavily reliant on the price of petroleum because oil is used to make fertilizer, run grain combines and other machinery, and deliver food to markets. If you check the commodity prices of sugar, corn, wheat, etc during the 2008 gas price spike, you will see that they are directly related; i.e. when oil prices go up, food prices go up. Therefore, if the U.S. goes to war with Iran and Iran is able to cut off the OPEC supply of oil to the U.S., then the price of oil will go up. The result of this will be that the price of producing food will go up and there will be a famine caused because many farmers will be unable to afford to grow because the price of production is so high.

      According to Lindsey Williams (of the Energy Non-Crisis) the United States has been planning this eventuality for quite some time. This is why the oil fields in the Bakken area in North Dakota have been scaling up so rapidly. However, they aren’t going to be able to scale up fast enough to entirely replace the oil the OPEC nations provide before war breaks out with Iran. So what we’ll have is a period of probably a few years where oil prices will be high and food production low in an already inflationary environment. What this means is food prices will no doubt soar to a level unaffordable to most of the already impoverished U.S. populace. It is likely that we will see mass starvation, disease, rioting, and looting before the U.S. government steps in with a “rescue” plan. The Anti-Christ will no doubt come on the stage around this time, just as Hilter came on the scene, professing to be a savior during a time of extreme economic crisis in Germany. Yes, history does repeat itself. The wise learn from history and prepare against the “hard times.”

  56. Zack says:

    One more comment regarding the Dismal Out look for 2012.

    Once those 144,000 have been Sealed by those in Authority to do so, during that 10 day stay in Heaven that the Lord’s Servant is spending getting things ready for His Return on Pentecost, May 27th. It will be a Fine Time for those 144,000 as far as their not having to be worried over being consumed by the impending chaos in the World & have been WAITING for this all of their Adult Lives.

    And they & the Righteous Members of their Families, will be the ONLY ones at that time who will have nothing to worry about. Anyone who is NOT a member of that Group of Saints are going to be VERY CONCERNED for their welfare & future….In EVERY WAY one can be concerned for one’s life.

    I suspect that there will be NO Large display of Power on the part of the OMS or those 144,000 at that time, other than “Speaking Words of Eternal Truth”. This would be for the Purpose of TESTING THE FAITH & LOYALTY of the Saints to their willingness to Accept the TRUTH.

    Big Miracles would most likely come LATER, when they would need PHYSICAL protection from the World. The Lord will Test their SPIRITUAL METAL FIRST.

    Even as we begin to Gather Out of Babylon to temporary places of safety & refuge, it will ONLY take the form of an HAPPY ADVENTURE for those of Stronger Faith. Just as in the Days of Moses, not every Israelite would have painted the Blood of the Lamb over their Door Posts and have REMAINED in Egypt. And then there where those who were PEELED from the Ranks of the Righteous followers of Moses, through acts of cowardess toward he Enemy, or because of Envy toward the Lord’s Anointed, or just plain old not being able to “Cut It” living in the Desert before reacing the Promise Land.

    The members of this post, I would judge to be among those who will ENJOY this trip and wind up Singing the “NEW SONG” that only the 144,000 will have been taught…If not being among that Group to begin with.

    You will QUICKLY LEARN that song of what means to ASCEND to the LEVEL in which THEY Enjoy the Music….GOOD NEWS ! Miriam was the FIRST to feel that ELATED FEELING of being Delivered from the Enemy as thy Crossed the Red Sea.

    Many more will eventually learn that “SONG” as well, but they are going to have to practice Singing those Notes OVER & OVER until they can make SENSE of it’s LYRICS.

    Right now there are some who are merely Humming the Melody. But that will be subject to GREAT WONDERFUL CHANGE !!!

  57. Zack says:

    I saw some discussion regarding the possible future possession of Women holding the Priesthood.

    The theories regarding that stemmed from the fact that certain women of God have been referred to as Prophetesses…ie Debora, Miriam ect…

    The Priesthood is a MALE component of God. ANYONE, Male or Female can Prophesy without the necessity of holding the Priesthood…Prophecy is a GIFT given to some for the benefit of themselves and others as becoming the “EYES” for others.

    There are varying Degrees & Responsibilities associated with the various levels of recieving Prophecy, depending on one’s calling in life, But that calling could could mean ANYTHING from being a Mother, Father, Elders Q. President, Home Teacher or someone who has NO CLUE that th Lord’s Church even exists.

    It was THROUGH a Gift of Prophecy that I found the Church to begin with. I had no Priesthood at that time.

    A far as Women officially holding the Priesthood goes, it isn’t NECESSARY for some like Debora or Mraiam to recieve the respective INSIGHT they recieved from God, to be a matter of the Priesthood.

    Debora was chosen to lead because of the Lack of PRIESTHOOD Kahonas among the MEN of Her Time. Just as some Women in the Church today must assume the Role of their Husbands becaue He REFUSES to. THAT doesn’t make her a qualified candidate for recieving the Priesthood for Herself. Anyway….Could you imagine what it would be like in today’s church is she COULD hold that Priesthood ? Shoot ! There would be a bunch of HOMELESS DEAD WEIGHT MEN !

    • AV says:

      There is no ‘future’ time when women will receive the Priesthood, for they have always held the Priesthood, but it has been men who have not wanted to honor & respect women’s equal authority, power & position in the home, church or society. So men have generally denied women’s Priesthood possession, power, authority & equal position in all things.

      Joseph Smith tried to restore women to their rightful equality in the Church, home and society, but most men were not willing to accept that, especially not Brigham Young who believed in threatening women to submit to men, and abusing, demeaning, controlling & collecting women for his own desires.

      But the Spirit has always throughout the ages taught righteous women of their true equality with men in all things & that they already possess the Priesthood just as much as any righteous man. There is no position, power, right or authority that men can receive that women can’t also receive or already have. For women were foreordained with the Priesthood in the Pre-Existence so they could act with power, in the name of God & perform certain ordinances like the birth of their children, healings, blessings, leadership positions, etc, whereas men have to prove worthy of such power here on earth. Women do not need any man’s permission to use their God-given Priesthood power to heal, bless, teach, or lead others. I believe there have been far more prophetesses than prophets who have walked the earth, and it wasn’t God who didn’t let them be heard or lead the people.

      Of course though, if a woman doesn’t stay righteous then she loses her Priesthood power, just like unrighteous men do, but she doesn’t usually lose her privilege to officiate in the supreme ordinance of birth.

  58. Adam says:

    The Lord’s servant is coming to set His house in order. The gentiles are going to be given one last chance to accept the fulness of the gospel. It is going to play out exactly like it did for Jesus. Think about this area, we have a dead sea (salt lake) we have a sea of Galilee (utah lake) and we have a Jordan river. The first time around the Jews were given the gospel, but the majority of them rejected it so it went to the gentiles. This time around the fullness of the gospel is going to be offered the gentiles but most will reject it, so it will go back to the house of Israel. The servant is going to be rejected by the leadership of the church, just as Jesus was rejected of the leaders of the Jews. The servant is going to be marred, but God will heal him. The servant will lead an exodus of the righteous out of these valleys into the mountains and will start zion. Those in the church that reject his message will be as salt that has lost its savor. 3 Nephi 16

    • This has already happened. How do I conclude this? The Gentile church as a body rejected the fulness of the gospel in 1890 with the Manifesto (they voted unanimously in its favor). D&C 45:29-30 states that the fulness of the gospel will be taken from the Gentiles in the generation that rejects it. In other words, God in his mercy gives them a generation to repent. Generally a generation is accepted to be somewhere between 30 and 120 years. Even if we take the latter number to be the case, that means the time of the Gentiles had to have ended at or before 2010 (1890+120). Did the Gentile church repent before this time? I would figure most of the audience here has concluded that they have not. In fact most of us have just seen it getting riper and riper in iniquity while putting on a facade of holiness.

      Has a One Mighty and Strong or One Like Unto Moses come as a thief in the night and caught us all unawares?

  59. Adam says:

    John,

    I agree with you that it was rejected, but I think it’ll be offered again through the servant.

    Moses wanted the house of Israel to have the fulness, but they rejected it. The fulness was later offered to the house of Israel again through Jesus Christ.

    Joseph wanted the fulness for the saints, but they too rejected it. It will again be offered to us. I think the “light” that “shall break forth” is referring to the servant.

    D&C 45:28-29
    28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

    29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

    It then goes on to say that in those times, the times of the gentiles will be fulfilled. It is at this time that the great work of the Lord will happen, the times of the gentiles will come to an end. We either become the kings and queens of the gentiles that help in the great work of gathering the house of Israel, or we become as salt that has lost its savor.

    • 3 Nephi 16:10-15 makes it clear that after the Gentiles reject the gospel it will taken from them and given to the house of Israel. Who is the house of Israel? We’re talking genetics now: Jews, Native Americans… and true converts to Mormonism. Joseph Smith stated that the blood of those of the Gentiles who truly convert becomes full-blooded Israelite. When the Book of Mormon speaks of Gentiles, it isn’t speaking about just anyone, it’s speaking of Israelites who have mixed their bloodlines with non-Israelites and lost their identity. Therefore, they are Israelite and being fully converted just causes that blood to purge out the Gentile blood. That is how they are able to be adopted into the house of Israel.

      • Richard says:

        Were the true converts to Mormonism adopted into the house of Israel, or were they actually true Israel? It was taught that Joseph was a pure Ephriamite. How could that be just by adoption? It was also taught that the best blood of Israel went to the British Isles. Joseph was fair and blue eyed. It makes no sense that other Israelites would be racially different. Early Mormonism truly was a “Christian Identity” faith– in fact the FIRST CI faith. As you said, true Israel has lost their identity, and have mixed with the Gentiles. In our day, however, the Lord has promised that when the times of the Gentiles are over, He will return again to his ancient covenant people, cleanse them of their Gentile blood, and restore them to all their former blessings. This includes the blessing of being gathered into tribes (which means the tribes must be identified) and finally being established again into an independent political nation (Zion). I continue to look to the Second Book of Commandments to understand how this is to come about.

  60. NPJ.
    I find the posted information very interesting. While I believe a certain amount of speculation on any subject is healthy it is when we act as though this type of speculation replaces sound doctrine of revelation. I believe that any religious topic to have any validity must be given by revelation and be received by the same. I believe that what makes this church powerful is that it has the power to confer the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost will if allowed to will produce a people that is one in their believe. I believe that the devil will do the opposite that is create dissension and confusion. While the Holy Ghost will give clarity upon the subject. Therefor, before we judge the leadership of the church more harshly than is justified we should look to ourselves that a beam does not exist. Therefor, I shall testify that the church is the ensign that is setup as isaiah discribes. Therefor, the end will not come until the gosple is preached to all the world. The revelations that would be given to the president of the church would therefor deal with this work. The second mandate was to gather the dead again they would also be receiving revelations on this subject as well. I personaly have seen their inspired words work to bring to pass those two mandates. I therefor have received many wittnesses to their calling and to their performance on those two issues. As to the one mighty and strong if we as a people have received the ability to decern the Saviors voice through exercising the gift of the Holy Ghost we will know him when he is revealed by our Savior. If however, speculate and murmer about the General Authorities and harsly judge them because they are not perfect in their calling then I believe we will not regonize the one mighty and strong either because he will have his weakness as well and will be decieved by them. I believe that if we do not or cannot see the current prophet as the saviors current servant how will we be able to decern someone as the servant that one of his primary goal is to clense the church from the tares. How will we decern that we ourselves are not the tares if we cannot decern the Saviors voice now.

    • Tachikoma says:

      the problem is the current lot of prophets and apostles dont actually act like prophets and apostles…..they lack revelations, dreams, visions, prophecy, being a seer and translator. all keys to being a prophet,seer,revelator and translator. to be quite frank compare this lot to anyone such as Joseph Smith and prior and there is a night and day contrast.

      that said i am shocked so many here think the OMS and if there is a second person have to be dead people. quite frankly i see no reason they cant be alive as in they arent born yet or they are alive and God is taking a personal interesting in this one or two people. just because they will be clothed in light does not mean that they have to be dead. generally speaking when true servants of The Lord speak with divine power they usually possess divine protection at least long enough to do whatever The Lord has called them to do. i’d suspect that clothing of light is divine protection.

      if i had to guess this person or people are future and have yet to appear. Lee while he made of had good intentions i doubt he fits the bill. i suspect steadying the ark will require a lot more than Lee attempted in fact i think steadying the ark really speaks of a ship that is destined for Africa but somehow landed on the shores of California in other words a ship that is so far off course its almost unrecognizable or a more extreme example a space ship destined to the moon that somehow lands on pluto. and this new captain of the ship will have some major fighting to do to set the course right again..

      • finewindes says:

        A prophet is one who has the testimony of Christ. A seer is one who sees the meaning of things and signs and understands their purpose. A revelator is one who reveals the mind and will of God to his people. The current prophets and apostles are examples of all these callings. Just because they don’t speak in the “thus saith the lord” style anymore does not mean they are not speaking his will. Just because they don’t publish all of their dreams and visions doesn’t mean they don’t have them. Prophets who initiate dispensations are often very different from those who close them. Study the prophets of old and you will see that they varied greatly in purpose, gifts, and style. Look at how the world views people who cry repentance with dreams and visions and visitations in our day. It is clear that the gospel is more likely to be accepted by more people with prophets like our current day ones. The still speak with power, authority, and testimony. They still talk of being directed by the lord as to their message. And most importantly they accept and wear the title of prophet an apostle humbly and respectfully. They are truly dedicated to pushing the cause of Christ to all of his children. I have met many of them. They have the purest hearts I’ve ever felt and the strongest testimonies of Christ on earth. They are his servants. I can say this with an absolute faith and surety.

      • Tachikoma says:

        no a prophet is one who has a SPECIAL WITNESS of Christ. Theyve seen the guy. theyve possibly touched his feet. Theyve seen His Face. this is not an average testimony if it was it would be called AVERAGE WITNESS but its special witness.

        “revelator is one who reveals the mind and will of God to his people”

        in order to do this one sort of has to have revelations.

        “thus saith the lord”

        without that how do i know its from The Lord? read the book of mormon they make no bones about saying God says this The Lord says that. D and C also makes no bones about prefacing The Lord in front The Lords commandments.

        “Look at how the world views people who cry repentance with dreams and visions and visitations in our day.”

        and so God suddenly gives a crap what the world thinks? i dont recall God ever once caring that the world hates Him. God has always done things his way and His way always included peopled that prophecied, revelated, seered, and/or translated. God isnt going to mysteriously change this to become more popular.

        ” Just because they don’t publish all of their dreams and visions doesn’t mean they don’t have them. ”

        this is the thing. Prophets of old ALWAYS published a great deal of dreams and visions. these guys mention a grand total of what 0 dreams and visions? its out of tune with the pattern of prophets and apostles of old days.

        “It is clear that the gospel is more likely to be accepted by more people with prophets like our current day ones.”

        you are right false prophets are more popular. or at the very least prophets that dont act like prophets of old are always more popular. why you ask? they dont blast the whole earth and condemn it. Gods true prophets get exiled, terrorized, tortured(in some cases their own family casts them out) and are despised for demanding that the whole earth repents and comes to Christ and they always speak to more people than their church they sit atop of. there is a severe lack of torture these guys face and given the Fact this is the latter days and its very wicked and Jesus says the latter days will be like the days of noah i doubt their popularity is due to increased righteousness. but most importantly NOT ONCE have prophets been manfactured like today. they have NEVER EVER come from a sure line of succession. so why would this magically be different in the last days? the facts are Moses wants us all to be prophets, Moroni i think it was condemns us if we stop seeing angels, and others exhort us to not stop until to see the face of Christ there is none of this dreams and visions and heavens opening up is bad nonsense that is so popular.

        “They are truly dedicated to pushing the cause of Christ to all of his children. ”

        they cant all be dedicated. history says otherwise. Judas was a traitor, Peter denis Christ three times, many early apostles in the days of Joseph Smith were exiled. Samuel(the guy with the hair i think thats his name) becomes somewhat of a fallen prophet, david and solomon become fallen prophets. the point is they cant all be on the side of Christ. at the very least 3-6 of them are likely traitors to the cause.

        “I have met many of them. They have the purest hearts I’ve ever felt and the strongest testimonies of Christ on earth.”

        even the traitors? the fact is even Satan has a testimony of CHrist and knows Christ is real. ultimately a testimony means nothing. its how the testimony is used that matters. Satan will never say come to Christ to repent but someone with a testimony intent on doing good will say come to Christ and be saved. as for Monson i dont think hes one of the traitors. i think he is prophet just because we put him there and isnt a “real” prophet but i dont think hes a bad guy or means harm. i dont lump monson in as a traitor but hes far from a real prophet.

        once you break out of “the prophet is infallible mode” and take a long hard prayerful look at the 15 GA’s youll see they are failing at their spiritual jobs and succeeding at their worldly ones.

      • Scott Windes says:

        Tachikoma,

        I can fully understand your point of view. Ive often felt uncomfortable and frustrated by the semi-worshipping of modern day prophets and apostles as well. Also, I do not believe in blind obedience. I hope you dont think I was saying that I believe they are infallible. I was just pointing out that I believe their intentions are good and that they are called and appointed by God notwithstanding their weaknesses and mistakes. Here is my response to some of the points you make. Once again, it is not my intention to prove myself right, or win some sort of debate. Its just to show you how Ive arrived at my point of view. Im sure theres some rationalization in my thoughts, but thats just my humanity showing through.

        Revelations?

        I guess this one comes down to how you define revelations. Ive personally felt many statements made by current GAs are revelations. They have revealed to us how to come closer to Christ and know him better. Theyve revealed that he wants to change the missionary age. Theyve revealed what position hed like us to take on social issues, how to handle technological changes better, when to focus on being more prudent with finances, how to release ourselves from sin, and how to become more like God. I try to always take into account that when they are in General Conference they are talking to a broad audience and have to keep things simple and straight forward and not go off on doctrinal tangents. They are talking to babes, infants, non believers, missionaries, elderly, bishops and sinners like me.

        Dreams and Visions?

        In a few of the books theyve published Ive read many accounts of dreams and visions theyve had. I think they just dont push these hugely in front of the TV cameras. I wonder if that has to do with the dangers of video clips taken out of context. I witnessed Robert Hales tell the entire population of the MTC that hes been in the same room as Christ. When he spoke, it was Day of Pentacost style. Ill never forget people getting down on their knees and praying right in the auditorium when he finished. No one wanted to leave. No one had any doubt he is a prophet.

        Does God care about what the world thinks?

        I apologize if this came out wrong. What I was really trying to say is that I think God is a perfect parent and that he talks to his children in the manner that they will best understand and respond to. I think he absolute cares what the world or his children think. His sole purpose is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. I believe he will call prophets and give them messages that best help them fulfill his purpose. Ive always considered the difference between the Old and New Testaments as an example of this. Ive always viewed humanity as a single being that has gone from infancy during the law of moses to adolescence during the time of Christ to adulthood or old age in our day. Every parent knows has important it is to speak to and treat humans differently at different stages of growth. I just think thats the way hes working with us through his prophets as well. I sincerely hope they are not bending to be more popular in the worlds eyes, but if they are, I hope it is with a desire to attract more of the souls ready for the gospel. Ive often wondered what would happen if they (and we) gave every aspect of the world the middle finger and just did what we think is right. Would it really be more effective and attract more believers into the fold? Maybe thats what we as followers need to do while the leaders keep relations amicable? Im interested to know what issues you think are the big ones that we are caving on that we should be fighting against though.

        Should true prophets always be exiled, terrorized, and tortured?

        I think there are plenty of examples of true prophets not experiencing the same conditions as those who do when the entire population is incredibly wicked. For example King Benjamin seemed to reign in righteousness and peace among his people. In times when I find myself start to criticize the GAs I start to worry that I might end up being on the wrong side of that battle and ask earnestly what the Lord wants me to do. Ive felt a sense of peace like hes got it covered and if prophets are stepping out of line that he will take care of it, or he will call new ones. Ive never received the calling to be that new one so all I can do is wait till someone comes along claiming to be the next restorer if I felt enough like it was needed.

        I completely agree with you that he wants us all to be prophets. I taught a lesson EQ recently that explained that Elders Quorum was originally called the school of the prophets and that it is our duty as priesthood holders to try to live up to that responsibility. It was pretty well received! Ive had visions and dreams personally and Ive also felt like I shouldnt share them openly unless the spirit directs me to.

        Are some of them sheep in wolves clothing?

        Ive always wondered this same thing. Obviously, yes they can fall. I love the talk Terryl Givens wrote about the myth of infallibility myself. I also used to cringe at hearing primary children chant follow the prophet in a brainwashed manner. I studied and prayed about that one and the answer I felt like I got was that maybe someday those children will REALLY have to do something very unpopular and follow the prophet in a very tough way when they are grown up. Yes, it might even be a different prophet from our current ones. I hope that they will have it ingrained in them that they do have to follow him no matter what and trust that he will lead them in the face of death, exile, or whatever may come in the future.

        Are they failing?

        Im sure they are in many ways failing. They are men after all. But are they knowingly lying to us and deceiving us? What would you change and do differently if it were you? I know one thing I would do is deny any source of income from the church if I were in their shoes. Ive often told myself that I wouldnt sell books for profit. I would give them away. But on the other hand Ive felt greatly blessed by sacrificing money to read an inspired book. It has also motivated me to actually read it. I would take a long hard look at how the money is spent within the church. And I would stop using teleprompters in Conference! It makes me lack their sincerity because they are more reading/performing even if they are sincere. There are other things too, but Id like to hear what your top issues are.

        Why do I do it?

        So why do I troll through blogs responding to posts and comments like yours? Its because Ive been in your shoes. I was standing on a cliff looking over the edge in the middle of a sacrament meeting. I told myself I was done and stood up and walked out. A friend of mines father stood up and followed me out. He stopped me in the hallway and without any idea of what I was thinking said, Dont go Scott. This church needs you more than you need it. If you go, who will get them to think? Who will open hearts and minds? Who will help us to see the error of all of our ways? Since then, Ive come to see the error of my ways. Ive done some serious contemplation of what was bugging and frustrating me. Ive found that I have no business judging others. Ive found that I can do more good building up others testimonies of Christ than tearing down their testimonies of leaders. God will do his part. I just have to worry about doing mine.

        Maybe your part is to openly criticize and question our leaders. Maybe it will keep them in check. Maybe youll attract other like-minded individuals and help them become more like Christ through shared interests and emotions. I cant be the judge of that. I hope that you are simply following the spirit and doing what God has told you to do. I know for myself he has told me to try and be a voice of reason in the face of confusion and to love others no matter what their views are. I hope you believe me when I say I do. Thank you for responding to my original response. Ive learned a lot from our correspondence. God bless you in your journey.

      • Tachikoma says:

        Ill be honest i was half expecting an angry bitter reply…this is the internet afterall and i did more or less condemn the prophet and apostles. that being said thanks for the clarification and the reasoned reply

        “Dreams and Visions?”

        you say there are instances where they have dreams and visions. fair enough. that being said ive searched high and low and i find nothing but a complete lack of them but the internet is large and vast so i admit there is probably a stone unturned somewhere. for the record i do think they have them. in fact im fairly i had one with one of them. that being said beyond my own personal experience ive yet to encounter a record of their dreams and visions. so if you dont mind could you point me to where they say these things?

        ” I’ve often felt uncomfortable and frustrated by the semi-worshipping of modern day prophets and apostles as well. Also, I do not believe in blind obedience. ”

        honestly this kind of attitude people have irks me greatly.

        “They have revealed to us how to come closer to Christ and know him better.”

        well this is where i half disagree. i havent seen much revealing. ive seen repeating what has already been said which is no revealing. as for coming closer to Christ i think they get that half right.

        “I try to always take into account that when they are in General Conference they are talking to a broad audience and have to keep things simple and straight forward and not go off on doctrinal tangents”

        See this is kind of the thing. in the church things are ALWAYS simple. if you ever get into deep doctrine because youve simply progressed to that point the church really has no place for those kinds of things. dont get me wrong faith and repetence are important but at some people any follower of Christ finds themself going after higher things. they truly seek further light and knowledge and at that point the church really fails and falls short. yes its a personal journey and i accept that but i dont think the church should simply toss you to the wolves in the process either. while i do see the need for them to keep it simple i also see the logical fallacy in such a thing.

        “Would it really be more effective and attract more believers into the fold?”

        well since you asked….

        for this question first. the thing is the gospel is meant to attract all men and women yes that is true. however the gospel never was nor was it ever really the intention to save all souls. this might sound sad and paint God as an uncaring brute. but one saved couple into Godhood produces infinite eternal seed. when you consider each saved pair does that the point of the gospel is simply save at least one pair of people IF it does that it succeeds as that one pair infinitely glorifies God anything beyond that is a bonus. we also must consider that Enoch is shown the entire creation for the most part and God point blank says this is the most wicked of all earths yet this is the one earth Christ comes to to be born so this earth has the absolutely BEST and WORST. in other words we really should not consider that this earth is going to be a mecha of saved souls or that this earth is the standard of earths in all the universe. im not saying to give up on these people i am saying to keep your goals realistic. and to that point God has never said become more attractive to people. no Hes said keep MY commandments. to that end keeping His commandments even the really hard ones would be the most effective way to go and would also insure Divine help in all matters.

        “I’m interested to know what issues you think are the big ones that we are caving on that we should be fighting against though.”

        to be honest im not sure which are the truly big ones or if whatever i am about to say qualifies as the biggest issues. the first though is certainly the blind obedience to church leaders. you hit on another one the money issue i really dont think your average lay member has any clue what is going on there i certainly dont and ive at least somewhat looked. i also find church history should be taught completely uncut like all history should be taught completely uncut. i also really think the church as a whole is spiritually rather dead. we’ve completely forgotten what revelation is. Moroni i think is the one that condemns us if we stop seeing angels and says it is because of the wickedness of man that that happens. so i really think we need to get a hold on revelation and how it operates above all us and then actually follow it. i think the death of revelation is really the most plagueing issue and revelation does mean more than a feeling it goes all the way up to seeing the heavens….thats not the starting point mind you but that is the end point(well seeing Christ is the end point to be precise) and i really think we should start seeking after such goals. Denver Snuffer writes a fantastic book called the second comforter which is a rather well done guide to get to that point as much as there can be a guide. the unfortunent problem is the church does not nurture spiritual gifts and power. take the priesthood….its almost been relegated to nothing more than sarcarment blessing….setting people apart….and blessings of comfort when it comes to healing the sick. where are the ministering of angels(an aaronic priesthood power at that)? moving mountains? curing the blind? Joseph Smith made no bones about doing this stuff. we seem to be taking rather lightly the all mighty Priesthood. how many can say theyve confounded the speech of people with Priesthood power? i should of heeding the spiritual prompting but thankfully someone else did…to go ahead and bless the sarcrament…power was out and the bread was frozen solid but low and behold the bread was defrosted in 5 minutes or less…it was hard as a rock. i dont post to brag here but merely to say Ive seen some of this with my own eyes…ive partaken in some of it. so why is the priesthood such a relegated thought these days. God never ceased to be a God of miracles. it seems we need to take a long hard look at our faith. to that end i also think women need to re-learn that they can give blessings again.

        “I think there are plenty of examples of true prophets not experiencing the same conditions as those who do when the entire population is incredibly wicked. For example King Benjamin seemed to reign in righteousness and peace among his people.”

        while true the norm doesnt seem to be this and even that asside its just one more thing the current lot of GA’s dont fit the bill when it comes to the title prophet

        “In times when I find myself start to criticize the GAs I start to worry that I might end up being on the wrong side of that battle”

        i agree this is a tricky line to walk.

        “I’ve felt a sense of peace like he’s got it covered and if prophets are stepping out of line that he will take care of it,”

        see while i got that too i also got the sense of frustration that He is simply sticking by them because he Promised Joseph Smith He would and the people voted them into that office not because He outright called them to that position. while this might seem good bare in mind Prophets need to be outright called by God Himself. i know scriptures state that i just cant remember where off the top of my head. my biggest concern is no where in the history of ever has God stuck with a hierachy calling system for prophets which is what we have now and when one does exist usually as a king his son normally without fail goes wicked if not his son then his grandson. in essence a hierachy system rarely lasts more than 1 or 2 generations before wickedness rules. ive got little doubt that one that has lasted nearly 200 years is not subject to the same thing. i dont think every leader is a traitor but i’ve no doubt some of them are.

        ” cringe at hearing primary children chant “follow the prophet” in a brainwashed manner. I studied and prayed about that one and the answer I felt like I got was that maybe someday those children will REALLY have to do something very unpopular and follow the prophet in a very tough way when they are grown up. ”

        yea i agree cringe worthy. but i do agree they might have to follow a prophet to an unpopular thing that being said following the prophet is acceptable ONLY IF that prophet is pointing to Christ and that is my concern as it seems is yours.

        ” I would take a long hard look at how the money is spent within the church”

        i agree however i wouldnt just stop the money being spent. to frank at this point im not sure thats reasonable to do so. the church has its hands in many areas and a complete 180 on money over night or even in a year would probably do far more harm than good. the church has a fair amount of power i say we use it for the better rather than completely shrink it and cut it down to size. im not sure exactly what monetary changes id make. to be honest I’d ask The Lord point blank and not rest till i got an answer.

        “And I would stop using teleprompters in Conference!”

        AGREE 100% i think The Holy Ghost needs a place in these meetings(conference and church meetings) and the demand for pre-written talks kills The Holy Ghost.

        “I hope that you are simply following the spirit and doing what God has told you to do.”

        Yes i feel i am exactly where i need to be even though i dont quite grasp it God has told me He is teaching me to talk by first letting me crawl and fall over. while that analogy doesnt explain things to you per say it is an answer for me that is acceptable. i too have(well i dont know if you have it or it was just a few random visions) the gift of visions. well i suppose to be more precise i had always known it but it didnt dawn on me until i read the other article on this site but apparently i go full the nine yards and can seer. so i know a considerable amount about my future. so i know the direction i am taking is right even if it might not make sense. that being said this is why i am doing what i am doing. trolling blogs, the internet and even randomly replying to people. i agree unless you have an urge to share specific dreams then you probably dont need too but dont be too stingy with them either. this is also why i am rather critical and considered over the leaders. one i see them as being blind to somethings and also since i have this gift of seer i recognize it in others and overall i dont really see it at the top. in fact its bugged me for years(since i was a child) i am just now really taking a long hard look at this.

        “I’ve found that I can do more good building up others testimonies of Christ than tearing down their testimonies of leaders.”

        well i dont intend to tear down testimonies per say but like all things if it cant be tested and tried and stand up to a bit of abuse it was bound to fall. the pathway to heaven traverses through hell. if you cannot walk through the flaming pits of hell and live you cannot walk to heaven. so these testimonies need to be strong. not at first obviously but eventually they need to be. our goal is to follow Christ. Christ went to hell. so to follow Him we must do that too. the D and C(121???) revelation while Smith was in jail is a great example of this. people tend to want to overlook this or miss its meaning. the meaning here is literally if you want to go to heaven know that Christ went through hell so dont go thinking you are better than Him. you too will go through hell if Heaven is your goal. this is not just a “I will try you” verse. mixed with other scriptures that state to literally Follow Christ. its quite clear Follow Christ means Follow Him to the depths of hell and back. this is not a boo hoo i know God is real because He helped me get saturday off so i could go to work kind of phony testimony trial. again this seems to make God an uncaring brute which it can be seen as that but thats really the wrong message to take here. so really people need to have STRONG testimonies and the only way they can get that is if they are questioned and challenged to the point you are 110% sure Christ lives. to summarize you need to be more sure Christ lives than 2 + 2 = 4 if you are not your testimony is yet strong enough to pass through hell to get to heaven.

        so i am not trying to condemn our leaders or people in general(although we are a stupid species the book of mormon calls us lower than dirt and Christ calls us His sheep(sheep are complete idiots of an animal)) but people tend to take too lightly what this path to heaven truly entails. i’ve also found people have a stupid tendency to do this too in concerning not seeking a personal relationship with Christ. finally The Lord made it known He needed me to tell my family about my ability to seer. since then certain family members seem to love to bug me about well have you prayed about? what did God say?….i keep trying to say go ask Him yourself ive got no monopoly on this. in short people really dont like to build a relationship of there own with Christ which is also a requirement to get to heaven and that means more than prayer. you see this same thing happened in the days of Moses everyone bugged him for revelation. Joseph Smith spent half of the time trying to get people to seek after revelation themselves instead of bugging him. Nephis brothers ask what some dream or something meant to which Nephi says well did you ask God? and his brothers say no. so people have a dumb tendency to take whoever they can find that has broken through the veil and ask them to ask God while those people that have broken through the veil preach the exact opposite thing. so follow the prophet fits perfectly with the established pattern of humans although that pattern does not nor will it ever lead to heaven.

        if testimonies need to be torn down to be rebuilt to accomplish these two goals so be it.

        “I know for myself he has told me to try and be a voice of reason in the face of confusion and to love others no matter what their views are. ”

        well good luck to that

        “I’ve learned a lot from our correspondence.”

        Likewise

        im not sure whether i tried to win an argument(i do have that tendency) or i simply said well thats not how i see it. either way. farewell.

  61. Simon Daum says:

    One thing we need to consider is that the man called by god mentioned in verse 8 makes reference to uzzah from the old testament, who stretched out his hand agains the commandments of god, to touch the covenantark, and he was killed by god because of this transgression. He was called, but not chosen. He acted agains the law of god even though he should have known better.

    The man spoken of in verse 7 is not the same as in verse 8, he is the one that will come to bring this in order againd, and to actually do the will of god. We don’t know who this man will be, but I don’t believe it will be a political leader, and mayby we don’t even might recognize him in the beginning.

    • Uzzah was a man called up God and he had good intentions, but his timing wasn’t the timing of God. I suspect Harold B. Lee was the modern day Uzzah. He said something to the effect that the Church has been going away from the teachings of the D&C for 100 years and it’s time they returned to it. He also started messing with church finances. Noble as his efforts may have been, he didn’t last very long in office and even though he lived to 74 years old, he is still the youngest Church President to die in office, besides the Prophet Joseph Smith. The choice of words that Spencer W. Kimball used at President Lee’s funeral are very telling:

      “A GIANT REDWOOD HAS FALLEN.”

      (http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=6d4a3219c786b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1)

      “While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.”
      (D&C 85:8)

  62. Simon Daum says:

    It was not just the timing. Uzzah had responsibilty over the most sacred thing, the covenentark. His sin was not just that he transgressed a clear given commandment of god, but he also transported the ark not in the manner Moses ( or better god himselfe ) explained it. He had good intentions, and had responsibility over the ark, but decided to transport it in “new” ways ( by oxen and not by hand ) .. Because of that, the ark fell down. It’s intersting to think about it and why the lord chose this example in D&C. But, it also says that the strong and mighty will come to bring his house in order, so, until this happens, it still is his house, even though it might be out of order.

  63. Hi Zack,, AV, and others,
    We have just printed our prophetic book, “The Great and Most Abominable: The Prophetic Cleansing of the Mormon Church”, which will answer all of your questions and speculations with precision. ,Dave P. lent his co-authorship with myself and another former employee of the church. This book presents irrefutable knowledge, including Daniel’s Timeline based on accurate scriptural documentation. The saying that “no man knows the hour”, for instance, refers to a 48 hour time period in Hebrew knowledge for the moon to reappear. This knowledge, plus the fact that scriptures encourage us to figure it out, makes it imperative that we do so. Our knowledge comes from a profound near death experience of a ten year old boy, preceded by his mother’s three prophetic dreams/visions. This person had 78 hours face to face with God after being greeted by Moroni.. The precedence of this experience comes with the life of sinner Saul/Paul and sinner Alma the Younger and King Lamoni. This time it happened to a pure-hearted 10 year old. God gave him and his future wife (who has had spiritual experiences throughout her life) a mission to restore the original Book of Mormon and to cleanse the condemned LDS Church of its “follies and abominations”.
    Thank you AV for your comments since women do hold the priesthood and did so in the early years of “Pure Mormonism” and do today, despite their dishonor by men and ignorant women who ignore their responsibility to assume the “power of God” upon simple baptism..

    What are the follies and abominations as stated in D&C 124? Abomination: Jacob 2:23-24, 35, Jacob 2, Jacob 3 = 1) POLYGAMY! 2) Masonry aka Secret Combinations as seen with the Masonic oath required in all LDS Temples. Did not Christ teach us to “never swear an oath as it comes of evil and will condemn you”? 3) Women not honoring their priesthood (a huge folly) Jesus Christ did designate Mary the Magdalene (his wife) as the lead apostle (“Apostle to the Apostles”) due to her higher spirituality and Peter’s actions, which caused Christ to rebuke him “get behind me Satan”. 4) Idolatry of the statue of Moroni on every temple – The temple of God is the human body of a pure-hearted person. How’s that for simplicity without a need for “great and spacious buildings, which depicts the LDS Church today.

    All “Moneychangers” aka LDS apostles and prophets (type and shadow of King Noah and his 12 high priests) have sworn serious blood oaths which is why :The 10 Kings without a country” die suddenly when they try to repent (Harold B. Lee). We then have three others (Kimball, Benson, Hunter) subdued by a fourth aka the anti-Christ (GBH ~ now dead!)
    We know the identity of the ONE Mighty and Strong, the anti-Christ (“who steadied the Ark” doing it his way with smoke and mirrors, lies, public relation campaign), the true identity of God as given in the original Book of Mormon prior to its over 3,000 significant alterations, which changed the identity of God. The anti-Christ who steadied the Ark looked at himself as the reincarnated Jesus Christ and presented himself as such in the Manti Temple in a secret ceremony. Our book gives the date and the witness of this event with Boyd K stating that the “east gate of the Manti Temple have opened for Gordon B. Hinckley”. Understandably, it went over the “saints” heads to the frustration of GBH who then planned to stage a spectacular hologram to proclaim himself as the Christ! (Blue beam project). His efforts to manhandle spiritual events where thwarted by exposure (steadying the ark). …
    Get our book, 442 pages, at http://www.mormonstruth.org and you will learn the irrefutable truth for the “convincing of the Jew and the Gentile” and as prophesied: 1 Nephi 13:40 1830 BoM: “And the angel spake, saying: These last records…shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world” The phrase of “these last books” refers to our book and the original book of Mormon, which restores “the plain and precious truths” of the identity of God. Mosiah 15:1-5 states “that God himself shall come to this earth as a man”.
    So God came to this earth as Jesus Christ while His Spirit remained in Heaven as God the Eternal Father! We all come to this earth with a separation from our spirits, which remain in heaven, thus we have the veil between us and our spirits as we incarnate with our soul and intelligence. .(Cheribum and the Flaming Sword parable).
    This book provides exposure of extreme corruption of the Lord’s House and reveals divine truths. D&C 112:24-25 As a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord. (first among those among you who have blasphemed my name in the midst of my house aka the Moneychanges who make MILLIONS serving on bank boards, insurance boards, business boards, etc. and make money on their books, etc.!

    Nostradamus wrote two quatrains (one DATED) about this spiritual event (Whirlwind hit downtown SLC on 8/11/199 and the Spirit of God told me to “Pay ATTENTION THIS IS IMPORTANT”) Yes, I’ve had spiritual experiences all my life. So thank you for your honor to prophetesses, although I don’t call myself that. Many of these spiritual events were witnessed by others! I’ve seen the Savior three times – as a Thief in the Night – twice witnessed by others. And it is important to tell the truth and to not hide your light under a bush! Unlike the dictates of the false liars, hypocrites, prophets, apostles, Bishops and their counselors. (D&C 64) who tell people to never talk about their spiritual experiences! (They forgot to tell that to all the Prophets of the Bible and BoM!)
    Read Alma 11:23-40, Ether 3:14, Mosiah 15:1-5, D&C 3:1-11, D&C 64, 112, 124, 2 Ne 28, 2 Ne 3, etc. Good Luck! We are in the 7 years of Tribulation…good job Zack (timing a bit off, but you were correct about many things that you wrote about) Proud of YOU!

    • Michael Waltman says:

      Another Steve Davis disciple trolling posts. Steve Davis, Art Bulla the Lafferty brother rotting in jail for blood atonement and about 50 of others have all claimed the title of “One Mighty and Strong” The problem is they’re neither mighty or strong. They can hardly set a blog or website in order let alone the house of God.

      Steve lost me with Heavenly Mother being Lucifer.
      Art lost me when he prays and baptizes in his own name.
      Lafferty is a no brainer and the rest of the bunch are all long dead.

      They all contradict each other and they all have spiritual experiences to back their claims.

  64. Jason says:

    Truthrestored, what a bunch of malarkey.

    • Jason, In your very ignorant opinion only. Not in God’s. We know the original Book of Mormon is pure. We know the LDS Church is condemned by God and the “much restoration” is needed. We have the answers. You have ignorance. Have a great and abominable life since no one is samed in ignorance!

      • zo-ma-rah says:

        I might point out that it was the original manuscript that was pronounced as the correct translation. The printers manuscript which the original printing as based on contained many alterations, including the addition of punctuation. So unless you are willing to accept that the Printer was inspired of God then only the original manuscript is the pure one.

  65. Let-The-Holy-Spirit-Guide says:

    It was Franklin D. Roosevelt…

  66. TheOneWhoKnows says:

    The idea that Joseph Smith is the One Mighty and Strong because the Lord designates him as the servant of the vinyard found in D&C 101 to redeem Zion is obviously erroneous. The Lord was requiring the original organization of Zions Camp, which ultimately failed in that purpose.
    D&C 101 was given in December of 1833, whereas, Zions Camp was operating in May and June of 1834. Therefore, the person to direct the redemption of Zion is referred to in D&C 103
    8 But inasmuch as they keep not my commandments, and hearken not to observe all my words, the kingdoms of the world shall prevail against them.
    9 For they were set to be a light unto the world, and to be the saviors of men;
    10 And inasmuch as they are not the saviors of men, they are as salt that has lost its savor, and is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men.
    11 But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion.
    12 For after much tribulation, as I have said unto you in a former commandment, cometh the blessing.
    13 Behold, this is the blessing which I have promised after your tribulations, and the tribulations of your brethren—your redemption, and the redemption of your brethren, even their restoration to the land of Zion, to be established, no more to be thrown down.
    14 Nevertheless, if they pollute their inheritances they shall be thrown down; for I will not spare them if they pollute their inheritances.
    15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
    16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. (Not an angel)
    17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
    18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.
    19 Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.
    20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.
    From this we are led to 3rd Nephi Chap 20 and 21. The Marred Servant referred to in Chap 20 and 21 is the One Mighty and Strong or in other words, the Man Like Moses, who will be accompanied by the Savior in this gathering of the all the Tribes of Israel including the 10 lost tribes. Note: in Chap 21 the Lord indicates that the Marred servant will be marred by men but he will heal him.
    9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
    10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
    HOW DO YOU MAR AN ANGEL??

  67. ~Z says:

    One problem with being new to a site and being 3 1/2 years late to a discussion, much on a topic has already been said. Many people have said things in their comments I disagree with, but rather than discuss those, let me bring something new to this discussion: I think we have another scriptural reference for who OMS is:

    From 2 Nephi 3:
    22 And now, behold, my son Joseph, after this manner did my father of old prophesy.
    23 Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.
    24 And there shall rise up one mighty among them, who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren.

    This also sounds a lot like the Root of Jesse, but could be someone different:
    From Doctrine & Covenants 113:
    5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
    6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

    Notice that the Root is descended from Joseph, but, unlike the Rod, not necessarily through Ephraim.

    Since no one in Church history meets Lehi’s description, that must mean the “one mighty” has not yet appeared. Also, his role sounds very, very similar to that of the OMS. COULD Lehi’s “one mighty” refer to someone other that OMS? It definitely could; if he’s not OMS, he will likely be helping him out. Either way, I think Lehi’s description will make identifying OMS easier to spot.

  68. A Timpson says:

    I agree with most of what you have indicated. However I think you have missed some important items some of which I have indicated previously.
    In Section 103 we have the Lord referring to raising up a man like Moses and the Lord indicating that unlike Moses that He Himself will be in the vanguard in addition to an Angel.

    Furthermore this leads us directly to 3rd Nephi Chap: 20 and 21 and the Marred Servant. This also is the One Mighty and Strong.

    Also Isaiah Chap 52 in its entirety. Here is a little. read them
    12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rearward.

    13 ¶Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

    14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

    15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

    TheOneWhoKnows

  69. zac says:

    I can see it’s been a while since anyone posted comments and many things have occurred since the last one was made. Timing of end time events is difficult but not impossible as we move ever closer to the fulfillment of prophecy and it’s current unfolding in time.

    Something has occurred to me more clearly with regard to the way Satan does business and how it counter minds the Lord’s plan. It’s obvious Satan counterfeits what the Lord plans to do but I have only recently observed that this is being done to such a complete extent.

    Most people are familiar with a final 7 year countdown in time beginning with what Isaiah refers to as “The beginning of sorrows”, or the beginning of God’s judgments, to be followed by a series even greater judgments.

    What I think I have discovered, is that Satan is perfectly mimicking that final 7 year period but has moved it’s time line forward by 7 years and is not conducting his plan simultainious to God’s plan, but has rather reached the point since 2008, of having almost completed his 7 year plan & will have completed it by 2015.

    His goal is to incarnate himself on this earth as God and officially establish his NWO. His arrival will have to come in conjunction with the Lord’s plan to return to earth once the battle of Armageddon has been fought. Christians are the ones who require the greatest amount of deception to pull this off, given the fact they are told by God to look for the false God to come & the signs of his coming are all around us. All other non Christian religions from what I can tell at this point, are basically looking forward to welcoming Lucifer upon his earthly throne and have been heavily preparing for this arrival.

    We are all familiar with Hegalian Dialectic method of deception being used many times in the past and are familiar with false flag wars and events being used as the vehicle for promoting evil agendas throughout time. Like Hitler burning the Rietstag and Nero having his own city torched for the purpose of blaming the Christians.

    There is always a need for a Scape Goat in these situations. A Scape Goat would be the false equivalent to a righteous sacrifice of God, or a substitute sacrifice for Satan to benefit from.

    Here is a theory…..Obama was originally promoted as a Messiah. He is now being demonized as the devil, even by some of his original supporters in the press and the way he has been portrayed in a recent speech given on the last anniversary of 911 in 2014. He is now generally being made out to be the devil incarnate. He has certainly filled the ticket for the signs mentioned in the scriptures for what the Anti Christ would fulfill.

    Most Christians falsely believe that the Anti Christ and the Beast of Revelation are one in the same person…..Satan himself. I say this is not so. I say they are two distinct individuals. Obama is the Anti Christ & Satan is the Beast and maybe the Pope becomes the false prophet.

    Just as God required a righteous sacrifice on our behalf, so too Satan’s exhalted stint on earth must be preceded by a Satanic Sacrifice of a Messiah like figure,,,Obama ?

    For Satan to come as a God, most people will accept, his timing must be in conjunction with coming on the heels of the Battle of Armageddon being fought & completed. Does anyone see how ISIS & the Islamic Caliphate are being made out as the big new world order threat ? And who has made this possible ?

    All we need is another bigger and badder 911 style terrorist event, maybe New York City being blown up by a nuke, and we have instant justification for nuking the entire Middle East in our defense and justifying that the same way we justified dropping the Atomic bombs on Japan & targeting civilians in violation of the rule of war….It was necessary to save American lives by our having the only alternative to a land invasion of Japan and loosing upwards of 1 million Americans.

    By nuking the Middle East we have now created a false image of Armageddon having occurred/end of the world scenario and can expect the Messiah’s eminent return. This could take place any time now & play itself out within a few short hours, given the fact that nuclear warfare is swift and complete in comparison to conventional warfare.

    If one is to look closely at many events that have occurred over the past 6 years since Obama became President, one can see phony prophecy being fulfilled…..Such as Obama going to Jerusalem and appearing in the “Holy Place” of the Lord’s birth and desecrating that site. This is just one of many examples of false prophecy being fulfilled to create an image of events leading up to the final false battle of Armageddon to soon occur.

    Look at all the important world leader meetings coming up this September in conjunction with the Day of Atonement and the end of this 7th cycle Shemitah Year and our emerging into the Jubilee Year, the 7th Jubilee since Joshua crossed the Jordon into their Promised Land.

    The Pope ( false prophet ? ) is coming. Obama had a secret meeting earlier this summer with Church authorities where the press was not invited. Why ? We are having a special world council of religion meeting hosted at Salt Lake City in Oct. and a number of other internationally significant things occurring around these Sept/Oct dates.

    Look at Cern. Look at what it is promoting. Is this the way Satan will incarnate himslef from behind the veil and bring with him his demons upon the conclusion of a false flag Armageddon ? Will GBH become the recipient body on loan to Satan ? Who would make a better wolf in sheep’s clothing than a man with an impeccable 97 year track record of World Church Leadership (according to Hinckley’s own words when being interviewed by Larry King) and also being an astute world class buisiness man ?

    I believe the prophecy in the church with regard to a third political party nominee coming to office would be that of GBH/Satan. Mitt Romney warmed everyone up for voting for a Mormon Pres. and now Trump has everyone on the band wagon of jumping ship on the two major parties and going with a business man/non polititian.

    There have even been two notable Rabbis in Jerusalem proclaiming the Messiah’s arrival is eminent. ( Two false witnesses ) ?

    It does appear we have a convergence of major events taking place this fall. Maybe we will see the Man of Sin we were warned of and maybe the man God will send.

    It appears to me that ISIS & Islamic nations are being set up to become the recipients of a false flag Armageddon once ISIS & Islam bears the blame for a nuclear terrorist attack on America and Obama may surely be officially identified by Congress as the man responsible for this and be proclaimed the Anti Christ/Beast and done away with. Wella ! Satan, the wicked witch is dead and the man to follow should be a Messiah everyone is expecting & hoping for after a nuclear conflagration has portended a premature end of time.

    IOW….The final 7 year scenario God portrays in the scriptures has already been almost fully played out by Satan and the NWO. It began with the market crash of 08 on 29 Elul/Rosh Hashanna and should end on the Day of Atonement 2015. What does anyone think of this ?

  70. zac says:

    As far as the last few comments made concerning the OMS, I think the important thing at this point, is to be more concerned with the timing of this event in conjunction with the scenario I just put forth as being possibly accurate.

    We know the Hebrew Calendar is basically a day planner for God to bring about certain major events according to “Set Times” of appointment on the Lord’s Calendar.

    So many Christians now have their eyes and ears fixed upon this calendar thanks to the work and discoveries of Johnathan Chan, the author of the Harbinger & the Mystery of the Shemitah. I think there is credible credence to this phenomina.

    It appears that the end of this 7th Shemitah cycle, since the previous one that lead to the annexation of Jerusalem during the 6 Day War in 67, is taking us to the final Jubilee which marks the beginning of the end of time and the liberation of God’s People being lead by the OMS to Zion.

    My theory has always included the identity of the OMS as being that of the Holy Spirit being incarnated to earth to lead the way on the final Exodus to the Promised land, just as he did during the days of Moses when he lead Moses and his people in the form of the Pillar of smoke and fire. Look in Isaiah where the Lord’s Servant (OMS), is being reminded he is the same person who led the first Exodus and we know who that was.

    Remember Jesus first appearing to Moses in the form of the burning bush which got the first Exodus rolling and then Christ later appearing in the flesh at the time of His birth ? Could not this same pattern repeat itself with regard to the Holy Spirit ? First appearing in conjunction with the first Exodus as a pillar of fire & smoke and then later to incarnate in the flesh to lead the final Exodus to the Promised Land of Zion ? What BETTER time would there be than for him to arrive and accomplish on earth what he once accomplished from behind the veil as a Spirit Man ?
    Of all God’s Children, what man would better fit the role of Preparing the way for the Lord to return and receive His Bride ? His Best Man, the Holy Spirit ? The one man by Jewish Law who is RESPONSIBLE for setting up the wedding feast ? Me thinks this is a very credible and probable scenario.

    If these are (?) the false end time events that have been counterfieted over the past 6 years of Obama’s time in office as the Anti Christ, and the coming fall Hebrew Holy Days mark the arrival of “Their Messiah” ( Satan/Beast/GBH ), then it stands to reason that the Lord’s Servant/OMS/Holy Spirit, would show up on the very day Jesus proclaimed he would……Hashanna Rabba, Oct 4th, 2015….21 days after the Day of Atonement (GBH’s day of arrival ). Hoshanna Rabba is the 7th day of the Feast of Tabernacles….The day that Jesus stood in the Temple and pronounced the first coming of the Holy Spirit….Maybe in shadow & type for things to come ? Who knows ?

  71. zac says:

    By the way….I think it will be very easy to spot the OMS. All other men up to this point in time, speak as men do. Nothing out of the ordinary…Just the same old crap coming from many different sources.

    When the time comes for these things to manifest themselves, only two men will be speaking with GREAT Authority…..Satan incarnate, to be followed by the Lord’s Servant, who is sent by Heavenly Father to oppose Satan/Beast/GBH. (Sec. 85).

    The OMS opposes the man who already holds sway in men’s hearts and holds a position of status quo power & authority, & reaches forth to steady the ark of God when opposed by the OMS, consequently, eventually dies for having denied the Holy Spirit/a God sent by Our Father, (3Nephi), to Prepare the Way for Our Brother Jesus.

    The man reaching forth to steady the ark of God is a man CLAIMING to be God and is ALREADY seated in God’s Temple according to 2 Thessalonians. So the only decision we will have to make, is who we follow. But the two choices should be VERY CLEAR ! They will both speak with the Power & Authority BEYOND ordinary men, who speak nothing but B.S. in it’s very ordinary fashion we are all familiar with….Political/Religious/Lawyer Speak. It’s ALL short of the absolute truth coming from ANYONE but the Lord’s Servant.

    I hope my theory is correct so I don’t have to sit down and figure out a new one during times of crisis. I’ve spent a long time putting this one together…

  72. zac says:

    I want to address something I saw mentioned by “The one who knows”.

    Your final statement with regard to the OMS not being an Angel because otherwise why would he need to be healed by God ? To place this in a different context with regard to the timing of this healing, go to the 57th ch. of Isaiah where the Lord is speaking about his servant being covetousness and then a few passages later proclaims he sees his servant’s attitude has changed and the Lord subsequently “Heals” him.

    I would suggest the “Marring” endured by the servant, is a spiritual marring of a mortal man, rather than a physical marring, as the Lord proclaims no one will hurt his servant….Meaning to not physically hurt his servant. And his “Healing” mentioned in ch 57 of Isaiah, is referring to RAISNG the servant to going from being a carnal man & the persecution he suffered as a human, to then being raised up to being the Lord’s Angel Servant. He is healed of his MORTALITY. Just as the rest of us must be, in order to be qualified and physically ready to meet the Lord upon His arrival in Glory. Our Angel Servant of God, then becomes the paradigm of Righteousness we must emulate to a perfect degree in order to ascend above our Mortality, as God grants unto His Servant. The Servant becomes Our Moses who presents himself in the Lord’s Stead and is why he is referred to by Moses as a man like unto himself but obviously greater.

  73. zac says:

    Sorry if it sounds like I’m endlessly rambling but when I see the varied and frustrated remarks made by many Saints who know things are not right within the church but express so many varied opinions, I’m reminded of a passage in the Dead Sea Scrolls which reminds me of the same frustrations that pounded the Essenes of the Lord’s day.

    In a portion of that material it describes the truer worshipers of the people of God who have been exiled by the Pharisees, or they just left the fold out of a desire to worship in a truer manner, they ventured off to Cumran to live as a dedicated group of Essenes seeking to live the Gospel according to the original teachings of their faith.

    But because their faith had undergone a 400 year period of apostasy between the time of Malachi & John the Baptist, whom I believe is the Teacher of Righteousness referred to in the scrolls, these truer worshipers of God lacked a complete & proper interpretation of the scriptures and “Groped like blind men in darkness for 20 years, until the appearance of the Teacher of Righteousness”, came along and provided that needed proper interpretation of scripture and doctrines of God.

    In the scrolls, there is a future reference to another later day Teacher of Righteousness to come forth and provide that same service as John the Baptist accomplished by knowing the proper interpretations of God’s Word and were able to lead those people to recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

    Of course I believe this later day Teacher of Righteousness equates to the OMS sent by God with the Words of Eternal Truth emminating from the bowls of his soul…like it was in the Lord’s day with regard to John….The OMS…..A modern day John the Baptist to prepare the way of the Lord’s Return.

    I see some very strange and unfounded comments with regard to God’s identity being scattered between here and Heaven, throughout some of these comments. Strange and unfounded by any historical presidence. God teaches us by the use of SIMPLE patterns and not Star Treck styled scenarios of an unfounded LACK of historical patterns.

    But I can see these comments are made with good intentions but left to question, as someone already commented on this, as WHERE is the power shown by the people proclaiming these things ? What have they actually achieved in defense of their claims ? None of them seem to measure up to ANYTHING REMOTELY related to someone Mighty & Strong.

    The evidence of that lack of power tells me that what they say is false. Not misleading with mal intent, but rather unfounded for a lack of true knowledge concerning the doctrines of God…..Like good intentioned “Blind men” of John’s day who lacked a true knowledge of how to interpret the scriptures and needed for God to send them someone like John to clear the air.

    So too shall it be in our day. We as a Restored Church of Christ, have also undergone an extended period of decline and apostasy and a turning away from the original teachings of Joseph Smith. We need a later day Teacher of Righteousness, sent by God, like unto John the Baptist, to set the Doctrines and Records STRAIGHT before we are able to properly prepare the way for the Lord’s Return….Just as at the first coming of the Saviour when the more righteous people of God separated themselves from the Pharisees of old.

    Separation is a MUST. As long as we remain intermingled with those who would NEVER have us reach Zion, we will have big problems…. Until the day Heavenly Father sends the One Mighty & Strong Angel of His Presence ( I believe to be the Holy Spirit incarnate ), and lead us on the final Exodus, as did Moses, & prepare us to meet the Lord, as did John. And fight for our cause, as did David. And plead for our deliverance, as did king Hezekia. And approach our current leaders from outside the status quo, as did Samuel the Lamanite. And redeem us from modern day Babylonia, as did King Cyrus for God’s people of old. And conquer our enemies, as did Joshua leading his people into the Promised Land. And so on and so on.

    I don’t think we have anything to worry about. We have the common sense to realize the church has been corrupted and needs a Good Cleansing. A cleansing that may require us to remove OURSELVES from the presence of corruption firmly entrenched and going NO WHERE. We are to be led by a Man like Moses, Alma, David, Cyrus, Hezekia, and like Christ Himself. He encompasses the combined types of all of God’s prophets….Just as Christ does. The ONLY man I know of that ranks that high among God’s prophets would be the Holy Spirit.

    He is surely among us now, just waiting for his que from our Father in Heaven to begin this Great & Marvelous Work of Gathering God’s Family to Zion. If you want to really know how we are to recognize him…..It will be by His VOICE that we shall know Him. That familiar voice we have been hearing in Our Prayers as we have created our relationship with Our Father & Brother in Heaven. He is just like them and those we feel a Special Kinship with by the tone of their voice and Christ like actions.

  74. zac says:

    Our true family of Israel is gathered by the familar sound of God’s Voice.

    Who has served as Heavenly Father’s and Jesus’ voice since the time of Adam ? Should not that “Voice” receive a body as did Our Father & Brother in Heaven ? Should he be confined forever as a man of Holy Spirit ? Or did Heavenly Father merely save the Best for Last ?…Like the final volley of fire works at a 4th of July Celebration….

    Did not the Lord tell us that in our day….”That which was hidden shall be revealed ?

  75. zac says:

    I’ve spent many years studying the scriptures and trying like all of you, to be able to determine who this OMS might be and how to recognize him. If there is ever a time when we could use his help, it will probably come very soon, as we descend toward a sudden war with the Middle East & enter a world wide economic collapse that leads to total nuclear war. Interrupted by the appearance of a false God proclaiming that Peace & Safety are the harbingers of a New Millenial Dawn….A BIG LIE.

    Before the final judgments begin, and during a short period of perceived peace that comes at the tail end of what is perceived to have been the Battle of Armageddon, God says He acts “Suddenly” to bring about His “Strange Act”. Strange in the sense, that in order to begin the Great & Marvelous Work of Gathering Israel to Zion in order to avoid the final judgments, He must first begin the cleansing within His Own House.

    My God….What a very sad thing to think. How strange it would be to have to reject & eject one’s own children from one’s own home. No wonder Our Father & the Heavens wept when our rebellious Brothers & Sisters were cast from our presence in Heaven…

    It looks like we have come upon a time of convergence in the history of this world, when the Angels of Heaven will openly meet the Angels of Hell for the final conflict to play itself out on the earth from behind the veil….Just as it did in the Preexistence.

    This September 23rd, the Day of Atonement, marks the 70th Jubilee from the time Joshua entered the Promised Land of His Day. The Day when most Christians believe will be the Day the Lord Returns. Like most Christians have been taught some truth mingled with lies, the Day of Atonement probably is the Day of the Lord’s Return. But that Day will not come until ALL prophecy concerning the Gathering of Israel has been completed. So the Day may be right, but the Timing is off for the true Messiah to return this fall.

    We were told there would be 70 Jubilees from that time Joshua entered the Promised Land, when these things would BEGIN to mark the final 7 years of the End of Time.

    What do you think ?

    Can anyone see this beginning this year with the “Return” of a False Messiah ?

    • mountshelem says:

      The prophecies in Isaiah about the servant being reminded of the Exodus he led does not describe Moses. It is describing a work done by the servant in another prior round, hence the language of destroying the dragon, etc. Moses did not necessarily fulfill that language, which dragon was destroyed? But he will be like unto Moses. He will be one of the noble and great ones from Abraham 3, like Abraham, Enoch, and Joseph Smith; a Savior on Mount Zion willing to condescend again to help save his family members in mortality. The Holy Spirit is the “mind of God” and not a personage, read the Lectures on faith, ut is the power in all things like the sun shinning on everything. The Holy Ghost is a state of being of our own Ghost or spirit. It is describing us when we have been baptized by fire. They are two separate things, but the HS is not going to incarnate, it is God’s mind and not a personage. He will be one of many OMS, who rise up and recieve the fulness of the priesthood, the sealing authority over the elements (spirit of Elijah), and are high priests after the order of Melchizedek or the Son of God. There power will be necessary to protect zion. They will be Kings and Priests. The one servant will initially help teach them of that calling and power, help reconnect them to God and heaven, he will be a teacher like Melkezideck or Joseph Smith. There will be many prophets aside from him, and many queens and priestesses. He will entrust this world back into the hands of Christ, the King of kings, at his coming.

  76. Semisi says:

    Just so you know.. carefully, prayerfully read verse 8 above again with an open mind and open/humble heart, and you will discover that verse 8 is describing a different Man than the one mighty and strong.. just sayin..

  77. The one mighty and strong is not killed by lightening, he is the Ark! The one appointed is someone else like Aaron was to Moses.

    He speaks Truths long left in the dust..for example the fact that we live on a flat, Stationary earth, we Do Not live on a spinning globe…a deception put forth by non other than Lucifer the head of NASA…SEE Isaiah 14.

    God sits above the Dome of the earth…Isaiah 40:22

    If you are one of the Elect and seek more Truth contact me at trimetatron@gmail.com

    Jeremiah

  78. The Restoration of All things

    Seek Truth…Be Elect…

    Jeremiah

  79. KingZulqarnayn says:

    I believe the OM&S is the Holy Ghost Incarnate which is Elohim for true fundamentalists [Brigham Young stated: “It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost!” (JD 1:51) and Adam is God the Father via Adam-God Doctrine (becomes doctrine learning what Brigham Young stated)] Also, it is worth noting if you google “Son of Man septuagint” you will learn that the Son of Man came AS (not to) the Ancient of Days so for those saying it’s Jesus (Joseph Smith did teach reincarnation and let’s not forget that you would have to consider Jesus a resurrected being. Yes, I’m saying that he won’t come back until a Third Coming so-to-speak via Testimony of the Two Witnesses website), you are not far off. As far as the Antichrist, it is also worth noting Joseph Smith taught universalism (the salvation of all) and Satan actually means “adversary” in Judaism so I personally believe it is not Lucifer. Why? Because I believe he is David the Prince. According to the doctrine of the Four Craftsman (Zechariah) there are two messiahs in the end-times (John the Revelator is the Elijah/Elias and Enoch is Righteous Priest to fill out the Four Craftsman). Remember, according to me that would make it two epic messianic figures in Elohim and Lucifer as they are both the Christ and David of the Millennium.

    • KingZulqarnayn says:

      Also in Job, Satan is viewed as a tempter and not an enemy.

      • YouAreWayOff says:

        He’s not viewed as a tempter but as an accuser and a depriver of blessings. He doesn’t say hey God stick a naked woman in his bed or throw a playboy at him and watch him turn from you. He accuses Job of cursing God to his face if he takes his blessings away. Which he then does and Job does not curse God.

  80. Scott Davis says:

    In the Day that the One Mighty and Strong first demonstrates the power of God as a warning and a open witness unto all nations….it will not be questioned whom that OM&S is. The works and demonstrations thereof will bear witness of the faith of that ” one ” preordained of the Godhead due to his great faith both proven and demonstrated in heaven before the world was.This future Seer/Apostle/Prophet/Bishop will come with power to seal up all liars and hypocrites except they speedily repent. Judgement will begin at the House Of God and go forth unto all the Gentiles and the nations thereof but the Americas will be of particular interest in that Zion must needs be established confirming the New Jerusalem. This OM&S will minister in power unto the Lamanite seed or the seed of Israel and many shall hear and come and blossom as a rose growing in great faith able to receive powers from on high… Therefore they shall become like unto those as in times past of the City Of Enoch ripened to be made perfect even unto the establishment of Zion and the stakes thereof. Again…THIS SHALL BE A DAY OF THE PROVING OF ALL THINGS whether a man serveth God or serveth God not. God will raise up His Jewels and they shall serve him in bringing about this great cleansing and preparation for that Holiness which has and is to come..That One Mighty and Strong will come forth with that faith like unto Moses whom spoke with power and authority empowered by the Holy Ghost which Word thereof doesn’t return void but doeth and performeth that which it saith even unto the moving of mountains unto the utter destruction of any wicked in the path thereof….even unto the sealing up and binding up of those whom try to prevent that which Righteousness demands and desires.The work of the OM&S will be linked unto the Priesthood of the Church Of Jesus Christ and those found faithful of the gentiles shall greatly assist in this Marvelous Work and a Wonder. Who is he that is clothed in that Light which fills the immensity of space and hath not varience nor shadow of darkness…He is but one of childlike faith.So then…let us all repent and return unto that which is written and therefore be spared. Let all repent of all lies and hypocrisy wherever it be found. For a Day of Discernment and Terrible Judgements is at hand… yet a greater blessing awaits the Pure Of Heart. God bless the One Mighty and Strong and that Strange Act predestined before the foundations of the world. Let us all take heed from the seemingly greatest to the seemingly most least lest we be cut off and another be planted in the stead thereof.

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